I have no personal experience with a problem....just passing along what I was told......they said they were going to start being rigid in the enforcement of 1 ton trucks. Ive been behind the wheel of a tractor since I was about 7 (ask my Mom.....she wasn't pleased) but I'm no expert on towing.

 

$oC@l CTD.

What part of NEW REGS are you not getting???? What part of old and outdated regs that apply to diesels are you NOT getting????

First, they have RE-structured the weight classes, now 1-tons are looked at with a different viewpoint as far a GVWR, licensing and MOST of all, a way to increase the revenue to the state in licensing.

Secondly, when the original DOT laws, plus a few revisions over the past 30 or so years, were written, diesels were not popular 'private' vehicles. Back then (when you were still in someones ovaries and *********, and still in diapers, elementary school, etc) the laws were still primarily ABOUT COMMERCIAL diesels. Back then, people who towed trailers used the 'big block' gas powered vehicles.

So to bring things more to a current 'user' level, the DOT is changing/re-writing the laws. In many cases they have down-scaled things, in other cases they have drawn new lines - like the GVWR's.

As far as my keeping of fuel receipts, repair receipts, etc - while YOU may think I am ****, actually, using that information can be of valuable. It is GREAT for proving you have met your warranty needs as far as oil changes and maintenance, otherwise if they can they will use no information to their advantage.

I'll give you even more ammo to call my recordkeeping **** - I also send in an oil sample for testing EVERY TIME I change my oil. It also is excellent information in spotting problems early on, even is known to keep from having big repairs by not monitoring things.

I said nothing about a load over 10K being considered commercial, I said that having a standard DL which may have a 10K limit COULD get you a ticket as most all states standard DL's are only good for 3 axles in combination AND a 10K pull.

Take the time to read what's being said, the law focuses on the semantics of language, can sometimes give rise to an implied situation when it is actually very semantically specific.

CD

 

just for information sake i am including excerpts from the "CALIFORNIA DRIVER LICENSE CLASSES--Valid as of January 1, 2008"

this is a kicker for some of you: you a required to have a non-commercial class A license if:1. the travel trailers weighing over 10,000lbs GVWR, not used for hire.
2. 5th-wheel travel trailers weighing over 15,000 lbs, not used for hire
WITH A VEHICLE WEIGHING 4,000 LBS OR MORE UNLADEN, you may tow a: livestock trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. GVWR but not eceeding 15,000lbs. GVWR if the vehicle is controlled and operated by a farmer, used to transport livestock to or from a farm, not used in commerce or contrat carrier operations, and is used within 150 miles of the person's farm.

with a commercial class A license any legal combination of vehicles, including vehicles under class B and class C and you may tow 1. any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 10,000 lbs. 2. any trailer bus, with endorsement or more than one vehicle, with endorsement. 3. any vehicles under class B and C


i don't know how the CA DOT responds to drivers from other states

i am supprised at the new NM regulations. When i towed my 14,000lb trailer, track loader and 05 dully out of NM (wish I hadn't); I went to the highway patrol, they sent me to the DOT. the NM DOT officer looked at my rig and since i was under 26,200 lbs (loaded i was 23,800 lbs.) he said i was good to go. I failed to contact the CA DOT, a bad mistake. After I got to CA, I found the 05 with 3.73's could not pull up some of the drives because of the grade with the track loader. so i traded for the ram5500. another contractor saw the trailer and said i needed a class B license to pull it. so i went to the CA DMV. the DMV informed me since i wasn't agi i had to have a class A commercial license to tow it. it is a class A felony to pull a trailer over10,000 lbs in CA without a class A license commercial or non-commercial

 

One thing that most of you are missing is the individual state regs. For instance, in my state (MI), here is how it reads:

Who Needs a Commercial Driver License (CDL)?
Any Michigan resident who intends to operate the following commercial vehicles is required to have a commercial driver license:
Single Vehicles - Having a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)* of 26,001 pounds or more.

Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR)** is 26,001 pounds or more.

Vehicles:
• Designed to transport 16 or more people (including the driver)
• Carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding
*Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the recommended maximum total weight of the vehicle and load as designated by the vehicle manufacturer. The GVWR label is usually found on the driver side door post of the power unit and on the front left side of the trailer. The GVWR should not be confused with the elected gross vehicle weight (GVW) which is declared by the vehicle owner for registration purposes.

**Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a combination vehicle. In the absence of a label, the GCWR can be calculated by adding the GVWR of the power unit to the GVWR of the vehicle(s) or trailer(s) being towed.

Exemptions
The following people do not need a CDL:
Active Duty Military (including National Guard): With military licenses operating military vehicles.

Police Officers and Firefighters: Meeting approved training standards and operating authorized emergency vehicles.

Farmers: Operating vehicles within a 150 mile radius of their farm.
• An F-endorsement is needed by farmers operating combination vehicles whose towing vehicle has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more. A knowledge test, but no skills test, is required to obtain the F-endorsement.
• However, farmers who carry hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding while operating combination vehicles whose towing vehicle has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or a single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, need a CDL with a hazardous materials endorsement.

Individuals: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes.


Because I haul personal possessions, these rules above don’t apply, and I only need an operator license. However, I do have to meet Federal regs for axle ratings. As long as I’m under 20K on the rear of the truck and 33K for the tandems on the trailer, I’m good. Also, I can weigh up to the GVW of the truck and GVW of the trailer (ie 12,500 + 20K = 32,500) Obviously, if I hit the max federal axle limits I listed above, I’d have a broken truck. They can’t fine you for being over mfg recommended axle rating, only GVW of each entity. Now, because I am legal per my home state license, other states have to honor that. (ie I can’t have 2 licenses at once)

I talked to port authorities in 5 states (my intended travel route in the summer) and they all confimed what I listed above. Now, keep in mind, each state has differences in who needs a CDL. CDL drives log books, receipts, etc. So as a hole, you can't argue ones states rule against another. Each state has it's license rules. And again, you are governed by your home states rules. (ie I don't need a CDL to roll into CA)

Oh, I'll add this: My trip this summer I weighed 27,850lbs. No issues at all.

 

That is pretty much the regs in my state (MN), other than a few minor differences in the farm rules.

I run a 3500 srw pulling a 30' goose I can weigh up to 23k at times, and I watch my axle weigts. I also carry a MN drivers handbook in my truck incase I get pulled over.

I have been watching the MN regs and I have not seen anything on the 1 ton being considered Comercial. A lot of RV people are going to be ****** if they get pulled over with a dually while they are on vacation.

 

In what state are you referring to?

 

NC can and will write you if you are over the gvwr of the truck. The DOT cops sit at the landfill and check pickups that look overweight. If your truck has a 8800lb gvw for example and you weigh 9200 they will give you a 400lb overweight ticket. In NC you have to have the trucks registration ample to cover the truck and trailer you want to pull. NC registrations are available in 1000lb incrememnts so if you have your truck registered for 15000lbs and they check you pulling 18000lbs you will get a healthy ticket. My uncle is a 35yr vet of the NC Highway Patrol he tells me that they are stepping up enforcement on private vehicles for weight and licensing. He hasn't heard anything about a fuel log or 1tons automaticaly being commercial.

I personally would check anystate that I plan on traveling in just to be sure you are covered.

 

I see what is going on here. CD and others are lumping commercial motor carrier regs with individual state licensing/registration along with fuel revenue regs. No wonder he is so confusing.

First, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety laws have been adopted in toto by every state. The feds mandated it and every state has complied. FMCSR were written by the feds and every state adopted them. It was forced on the states. The reason for the forced adoption of FMCS laws was so the interstate driver will know when he goes from state to state he's got the same laws, be it driver requirements or vehicle safety regs. To say MCS laws aren't enforced the same in every state is not at all accurate. The reason the feds mandated FMCS laws on every state is specifically so the law is enforced the same in every state. Therefore my class C drivers license is good in every state as long as my GCWR does not exceed 26,000 pounds.

For you non-commercial guys, your state can impose whatever regulations they want as for the type of drivers license you need and how to register your vehicle. Just because NM is going to increase registration fees on duellies doesn't mean the rest of us have to worry about our home state registration criteria. Just because CA residents require a CDL to tow a cargo trailer over 10,000 pounds doesn't mean I need CDL to pull a 12,000 pound trailer into CA and out again. This has nothing to do with diesel powered vehicles. It has to do with revenue. I once stopped at a NM weigh station to buy a temp permit for the RV I was pulling. The short, fat, ugly chick behind the counter remarked that if I had NM tags they would have to be commercial tags. I handed her $5 and she handed me the permit. My state doesn't require commercial tags for combos under 26,000 GCWR and there is nothing that she could do about it. Some of the eastern states, I think PA is one, put commercial tags on 1/2 ton pickups. Diesel Doc says that NC enforces door post GVWR then allows they can register for more in 1000 lb increments. So which is it. Max registration weight is manufacturers GVWR or how much you are willing to shell out for? I'm guessing the latter. Revenue, period.

Tank dipping for off road fuel is a tax collector job. The highway patrol might be doing the checks, but they aren't enforcing any MCS laws in doing so. If they have a set of scales they may be taking the opportunity (for non-commercial vehicles) to make sure the vehicle is registered for the weight it is carrying/towing. They may enforce MCS laws for the commercial drivers also, but that is a totally separate deal from fuel checking. So If I chance upon one of these road side checks in NM pulling my personnal 5er all they will be looking at will be the fuel.

I don't keep a fuel log, don't keep my receipts for 30 days and challenge anyone to come up with a law from any state that requires me to do so. I don't even keep my receipts for 30 days in my possession when driving commercial, and the only reason a cop would want to see them is to see if the time/date stamp matches my log book entry. In that case it would be the last 7 or 8 days.

 

I have been told that 1 ton diesel engine trucks were going to be considered a commercial vehicle period. No matter what you are pulling. Just passing on what two DOT officers told me. I was pulling a 20' utility trailer with about 3200 hundred pounds of alfalfa which was for my own horses when I was pulled over. I just happen to have taken two FE left over from a project,and had them in my tool box. I always carry a first aid kit to keep OHSA happy, and I had just bought 3 safety triangles from wal mart. I also always keep a binder full of fuel receipts for my accountant. When I got home I called a local DOT office, and I was told the same thing.

 

I was told the same basics as annabelle in 4 different DOT checks in 4 different states in the past 12 months. The difference was that they recoognize the difference in use, meaning commercial or non-commercial, but that because of our engines being diesels we fall into some laws that require us to meet some of the same criteria as commercial vehicles when going down the road. That is where the fuel log comes into play, also fire extinguisher, first aid kit and the triangle reflectors. Because of the 1-ton ratings we do have a difference in how our trucks are viewed by the DOT.

I specifically took the time to make sure I had the DL correct after hearing about these issues 2 years ago when I bought my truck. That's why I now have the Class E Non-Commercial License, it's specific to those of us who have the 1-tons, tow over 10K for private use AND drive a diesel. I called the main state DMV in Santa Fe and asked a lot/ton of questions regarding the DL requirements and registration requirements, possibly even the commercial plate for the truck. They told me to get the Class E license and also got my plate in the right weight class due to the diesel engine.

At that time, 2 years ago, I got the impression it was about new DOT changes taking place nation wide, and New Mexico was beginning the process the same as other states would be doing over a period of time to meet a deadline of completion in increments that culminate in/on Jan 1 2010.

The same applies to the new DL ID's that are now beginning to change on Oct 1 of this year here in New Mexico. Some kind of bio-metric identification embedded in the DL, all the states have a timeframe of 2 years to implement as well.

I moved to NM from PA 6 years ago. I had to have a commercial plate on my 3/4 ton and 1-tons in PA even though I did not use my trucks commercially. When I got my first 1-ton pickup back in the 60's I lived in CA. I did have a choice about the license plate/registration, I could have a 'standard' plate or a 'commercial plate' - what made me choose the commercial plate was that you could not carry a tool box on a standard plate. Seems somehow that CA saw carrying any tools meant you were commercial. Kind of funny how all this stuff has evolved over all those years, but now things are defined by weight class and engine/fuel use.

I did ask the NM DMV about the need to get a DOT number because of the 'commercial' type use issues that were talked about 2 years ago. They told me that there were provisions in the new DOT laws for us 'private users' and no DOT number was needed at that time. Just to get the truck properly into it's weight class and get the non-commercial license to cover me towing over 10K with more than 3 axles in combination that way when I drove interstates I would also comply with other states licensure/registration needs.

Something else I encountered this summer when I got stopped in ARIZONA, they asked me about proof of citizenship. It seems that if/when you are stopped in Arizona that can be or is another issue we will have to deal with. As to not be profiling or trolling for illegals, Arizona recently passed laws to check citizenship on everyone. Fortunately for me, I have a passport and keep a copy of my birth certificate with it because now and then I go into Mexico and I had it in the truck. I guess if I did not have it or would have not been able to prove citizenship they would have detained me until I had means of proving my citizenship. They had no problems with my photocopy of my birth certificate and the passport clinched the deal. I did not cough up the passport right away, but when the guy checking me out said he did not know if a photocopy of a birth certificate was acceptable and he would have to check with his supervisor, I got out the passport real quick.

CD

 

For the many screwed up laws California has these situations aren't one of them.

1ton or under just drive it. Do not pull into the scales. If you want to pull doubles 5er and a tag you need a different license. Non commercial of course.

 

Some of the confusion results from the definitions of "commercial". Start at the root. The Fed definition mentions "use in commerce". Other states have modified it to include "furtherance of a business enterprise". The State of Florida mentions CMV (commercial motor vehicle) in a variety of statutes, such as the rules-of-the-road, operator license requirements, and insurance statutes.

Since many regulations seem to be interested in USE, and USE connects to the murky definition of "commercial", a lot of confusion ensues.

People are also confused between terms such as "RATING", "CAPACITY", "DECLARED WEIGHT" (IE tagged weight/taxed weight), "GROSS", "TARE", "CURB" (IE scale) weights, etc.

People are further confused by various state regulations regarding the term "PRIVATE" or "FOR HIRE".

You can certainly be COMMERCIAL, but "not for hire", as an example, meaning you are in a business enterprise, but are only hauling your own products.

Then there is FARM or AG use, there are the people who sell products at flea markets and shows, there are people who race bikes or cars or trucks (and some of them are in business and thus commercial, while others do it as a hobby....).

Lots of areas for confusion, interpretation, opinions.

From an OPERATOR LICENSE standpoint, my understanding has been from the Federal and Florida regs, if I have a COMBINATION that is RATED above 26,001# AND (important word...AND) the TRAILER is RATED above 10,000#, I must have a Class A CDL. The operator license section does not speak about USE, it speaks about WEIGHT RATINGS. I have had a Class A CDL since the late 1970's. So when I hook my one ton Dodge 3500 (weighs 8200#, rated @ 12,200#) to my 25' flat deck (rated @ 20,000#), my combination is RATED above 26K and the trailer is RATED above 10K, so I have the proper (required) license. Even if I want to haul my own stuff, not for sale. Period.

Exemptions for RV's have already been mentioned in other posts. NO EXEMPTION for "private" VS "commercial" use.

Other States may differ - check with your home state.

I have the Dodge, plus the 25' flat (goose), plus a 45' flat (goose or 5th), plus a 44' enclosed RV/toy hauler, plus a 26' Airstream. I also have an FL70 single axle sleeper, so when I hook that to the 45', I sure do LOOK commercial.

I have magnetic signs for the Dodge, they say "Private - not for hire, not commercial, not in commerce". I have crossed numerous scales in a number of states - never a problem. No one ever advised me to have receipts for fuel or any other requirement of the Federal regs. I can sleep in my rig in a rest area.
My Dodge is tagged "private", and has "private" insurance, but is correctly tagged for weights, correctly loaded, and I carry proof of ownership of my cargo.

The FL70 has similar lettering on the sleeper box. Tagged "private" - private insurance. Proper declared/taxed weights on the registration. Again, so far, no problems. I have been asked to explain on occasion, I do - produce paperwork - no problem.

I realize regs and rules may change, and certainly one tons are getting a closer look by a lot of folks.

As most states have signs on the scales that say "all trucks" (I only pass the ones that say "all commercial vehicles"), I cross the scales. I am in a truck, and I resemble a commercial set up. I have never been asked why, or ever had anyone either thank me for being courteous (so they don't chase me down), or tell me not to.

In Florida, there is, as an example, a statute for Agricultural inspection stations that pickup trucks towing trailers other than travel/RV type must stop. I know, I've beens stopped for not stopping (who knew ?) and also checked the regs myself. So each state has quirks in its regulations.

There are one tons that haul RV's commercially (delivery). They are commercial vehicles. How does a DOT officer tell the difference between Mom and Pop on vacation and those guys ?

Hopefully logic and reasonableness will prevail, and I err on the side of being cautious and well-prepared. So far, it has served me well. But everyone makes their own decisions, and the point of these forums is to share our experiences, so hopefully others can make informed decisions. No guarantee that what works for me will work for you. I am no authority - just sharing my own experiences after having done a lot of research.

 

Oh, I understand the meaning of "New Regs", CD. I'm in the military, there are new Regs every day. I also understand that you're one of those pompus, know it alls who speaks just to hear themselves speak or you wouldn't have written 5 or 6 NOVELS arguing back and forth with people who are merely voicing their opinions and experiences.

You said "In fact, CA has a special DL endorsement for those who DO exceed the 10K towing, RV's, etc - so do most all states. I have a New Mexico DL, called a class E Non-Commercial, it covers exempt vehicles in excess of 26,001 lbs"...I can tow over 10K in my state if I want as long as all my ratings are legal, so you mind to your own because I'm good to go...I could care less about your license out there in New Mexico? What does that have to do with ANYTHING from my state? By the way, had you read my last post a little closer, you would have seen that I said that a lot of our towing is farm related with a gooseneck full of cattle, which doesn't even apply to an EIGHTH of what you're talking about?

Another thing, I was speaking solely about 2500s in my post (me and my father) and OUR weight ratings and what's legal to tow, etc...all I said about 3500s is that I had never seen anybody NOT commercial keep logs of fuel and fuel receipts, which unless you're commercial IS **** (unless you can show me that law that says that all diesel owners MUST no matter what). I never said anything negative about keeping MAINTENENCE receipts/logs (such as oil, filters, etc) so that you can prove that you are upkeeping your truck and I NEVER put out the information as to whether or not I do fuel oil analysis on our trucks (which we do quarterly) but you conjured that up from somewhere and then tried to dazzle me with your "big city" words...LOL

You can shoot fun at me being younger than you which is fine, speak of ********* and ovaries and such (which was a total hoot, seriously man, ya had me rollin), but I take pride in my health and knowing that somebody doesn't have to change my diapers for me ANYMORE though, or hook my trailers up for me because my geriatrics and alzheimers and slow reaction times/reflexes got somebody killed...what are you upset with people who are younger than you or something? That was totally unecessary...but hey, good on ya for having that Class E Non Commercial New Mexico license

 

For clarification. When you register a vehicle in NC they will tell you your light weight in my case they said my light weight was 5540lbs. I know my trucks front axle weighs in at 75% of that. If you just drive your truck and never tow or haul anything then you would probably be fine with standard tags. To be safe my truck weighs almost 8000lbs so to be safe I should have 8000lb tags. Now if I want to pull a trailer I have to have the truck registered for the gvw of both the truck and trailer. Either way I can't exceed the 8800lb gvwr inside the door post on the truck. So they bust guys at the landfill for both underlicensed and over chassis weight.
It is revenue but I for one am glad they are cracking down on the toyota pickups and ford rangers with so much weight in them the front tires float off the ground.

 

I'm now a transplant in Oregon from Caifornia. But years ago in order to haul anything in any "pickup" you had to have it registered as commercial rig. Don't know if it is still true?! We had a Subaru Brat with seats in the back....it was exempt.