ladyram

Was not sure where to post this question on rotating Dooley's but I thought, well I do tow a 5th wheel...so I 'll just put it here. The search feature on this board does not like me at all and refuses to find anything for me. I know this has been discussed before.....neve mind...<br><br>Anyway, I would like to know some of your opinions on rotatating dooley's. I know I have read some comments on reasons why rotating is not recommended but cannot remember &quot;why&quot;.<br><br>Thanks much.....<br><br>

Dieseldude4x4

I rotate mine every 9000 miles in the order in the manual. I got 75000 miles out of the first set anf they were still serviceable at that. The inside dual goes straight forward, the outside dual gets turned around and goes inside, the front tire gets turned around and put on the outside on the rear. This will flatten the tread back out and prevents the &quot;rounded tire effect&quot; on the fronts from being in the same location too long. Some people do not rotate whether it is a time or money thing I do not know. I thing 75000 miles is pretty good for what I tow and will continue to rotate tires, in fact, I just rotated mine last week at 109000 miles. It is a lot of work (about an hour or so) but it is worth it to me. Plus, gives you a chance to check the pressures. I am running 70 in the front and 60 in the rear. Also gives you a good chance to keep an eye on your brake pads and shoes. The rear drum slips right off once you pull the wheels off. Just my experience in the last 45 months with my training wheel truck.

Lary Ellis (Top)

Definately Rotate!. It is the life of your tires!

Haulin_in_Dixie

It depends on your use. I learned many years ago with 18 wheelers how to do mine. I run the same size tires on the trailer. The trailer is the hardest on the tires and they are always wearing out. Most of the time it is not good to have new tires on the trailer as they seperate the tread easier when new, too much rubber to flex on pivot turns, so:<br><br>I buy tires in pairs. I put the new tires on the steering axle. At about 50% wear I buy new tires again for the steering. The steering tires removed go to the rear axle with the least amount of tread. The two tires coming off the rear axle go to the trailer to be finished up and the tires from the trailer are discarded. Usually the trailer gets some used tires in between new tire purchases. This gives the commercial truck the most tire wear for the buck.<br><br>The best mileage is on the steering, the drive tires wear next-best and the trailer is the hardest on tires. Sometimes a pair is needed for the drive axle and new are purchased for the steering. In other words the steering always gets the newest and best tires.<br><br>Of course this if for vehicles always pulling a multi axle trailer.

TPilaske

I rotate every other oil change, roughly 7500 miles. ;D<br><br>Tony

CoastalDav

Took the Goodyear factory tires off at 21,000 miles, installed two new Michelins LTX M/S up front, 4 used (25,000 mile) LTX M/S on the rear. Have not rotated. Truck now has 85,000 on it. Fronts still have lots left and rears will need some new ones by Xmas time. On another truck with Goodyears like I took off, same year, towing same size 5fer, got 45,000. He just put 6 new ones on last week. He was headed for Dollywood. He choose Goodyears again since they were 250.00 cheaper on six tires than the Michelins. <br><br>No doubt rotation will make them last longer. I feel like if you known you have a good balance, why let another guy try and get it right again and again, if you let someone else do it. The brand of tires also makes a differance. <br><br>Run 80 psi up front to keep the wear in the middle to the outside and get aligned at least once per year or right after you've taken some bad pot holes at speed. <br><br>Dave<br>Melbourne, Fl

ladyram

Dave, <br><br>You say the &quot;tires make a difference&quot;. Ok then, I have Michelins LT235/85R16 Load Range E. What you said about &quot;balance&quot; hit home with me. I have not been fortunate enough, yet, to find a place to take LadyRam to that I feel really comfortable with. The fear of going in without a problem and driving off with one is real. The local Dodge dealership is where I have been going for oil changes but it's always a pain to get them to answer the simpliest questions. They just don't want to be bothered or they come off as defensive. No need to, it's an ego thing I guess.<br><br>I have 10,000 miles on the truck and the tires do not appear to be wearing unevenly. I'm running 65psi in the front and 50 in the rears. Mostly running empty with no load to speak of. I guess I'll wait for a few more replys and think on this some more......

Bill1374

Hi Ladyram.<br> I've been fortunate to have a smaller independant shop for my repair work. They mounted my last set of tires and balanced them with real good results.<br> I've followed a schedule of rotating the tires every 12000 miles which I usually do myself. Granted I'm running 2 less tires but I have found over the years that I get the best service out of tires if I follow a faithful rotation schedule. My current Goodyears have over 30 k on them with a flat wear pattern.<br><br>Bill<br>PS Save some of your good weather for me, we'll be in your area in Feb.

CoastalDav

Lady Ram; Tire Balance. I have used Tire Kingdom, South Tire, Glenns Tire in the Melbourne, Cocoa Area. You must tell them you want a ZERO Balance. You must stand outside were you can see the tire when it goes on the balancer machine. <br>While the tire is spinning, watch for in and out side to side motion. Bent rims usually to this. Occassionally the tire will not be centered on the spinning hub on the machine. If you see the tire going up and down, that is usually the tire is not centered on the machine. The tire is heavy on the rim and is hard to get centered. If you have a smaller guy doing it, watch real close. If you see it moving, walk inside and say something to the desk guy. What will happen is they will continue to pile on weight when the tire is not centered.<br>Have them remove the weights, and try again. They can also<br>index the tire by breaking it loose from rim, and moving it 90<br>degrees or 180 degrees from where it was. The main thing is to watch the tire spin. My sons 96 had two bad rims on the rear when he had Sam's install 4 new Michelins on it. The truck has 200K miles on it. We had a side to side movement. <br><br>Be up front with the guy and tell him you have concerns the tire will not balance correctly if it is not mounted on the hub<br>centered. <br><br>After balance, count the weights on each side and write it down. If you get a vibration under the feet check your weights and see if you have them all. Very seldom will you feel it on the rears with a dually. <br><br>Hope this helps, sorry it was so long. <br><br>Dave

Dieseldude4x4

When I had my first replacement Michelins installed, I told them not to balance. I would let them know if they needed balanced or not. I have 34000 miles on that set of tires right now with no bounce and they are wearing flat across. I rotate them as I mentioned above earlier, takes me about an hour. Sometimes I think this balance thing is a waste of time and money on a rig this size. Either that or I got a real good set of tires because there is no weights at all on mine and they are smooth as can be. I would still recommend you rotate even if you don't balance every time but it is your wallet. Good luck.

ladyram

First let me say...Thanks for all the replys! Now if I may think outloud (or outlound in print) ;D about what I have learned from this thread. Please correct me if I'm off base here or going in the wrong direction.<br><br>It seems to me that if, when you first rotate your tires and there is no uneven wear, you would not need to add those little weights for balance. So it follows if you rotate on a good schedule, before they begin to show uneven wear, you should be able to go into a tire shop and just say, &quot;Rotate my tires please&quot; and forget about the balancing part. Is this correct?<br><br>The balancing part seems like it's contigent on the skill of the balancer. but the rotating seems like it's contigent on the timing of the truck owner to keep from having to go to the balancing step.<br><br>I apologize for being so dumb here... but, although I have owned many vehicles, I have never cared to &quot;know&quot; as much as I do owning LadyRam.<br><br>

Dieseldude4x4

No problem, I've always been told that there is no such thing as a dumb question. Believe me, in my 48 years, I've asked a few. What I am talking from is experience and what works or has worked for me. That may not necessarily work for someone else. I will tell you what I know from working on cars for the last 30 years or more and you can take it for what it is worth.<br><br>Tire wear can be caused by several different problems and if read correctly, is indicative of those problems. Alignment and balance are two main ones as far as I am concerned. Wrong air pressure and loose or worn parts are a few more. Of course driving habits and road conditions will play a big part too as well as proper loading of the truck and the tires. Crowned roads are hard on the inside of tires mostly. <br><br>Misalignment and or wrong tire pressure will normally cause consistent wear on the inside or outside of the tire (the fronts in this case). If the tire pressure is too low, the wear will occur on the outside edges because there is not enough pressure to keep the center of the tire down in contact with the road. Pressures too high will force the center of the tire down to the road and not let the edges ride evenly causing wear in the center of the tire. Running tire pressures at the upper end of the scale will also limit the flex in the side walls and may cause more pronounced wear due to slight misalignment on the fronts. My truck did this at first when I was running the pressures up where the door post calls for. Left them down to 70 psi and they wore flat across for 75000 miles. Unfortunately, these trucks with solid front axles require special shim kits to get the alignment perfect which can be quite costly or heating and bending of the front axle tube. (never liked that option) Then on top of that, you have to find someone competent enough to use the kits correctly or bend the axles and align the front end the way it should be to get the castor and camber in spec. (may require spring mount shims too) Toe is about the only thing somewhat easily set with no parts and just hand tools. Misalignment will normally cause the truck to pull to one side or the other when you let go of the steering wheel going down the road. (don't recommend doing this though)<br><br>An out of balance or worn front end will most likely cause uneven wear or &quot;cupping&quot; of the tire at different intervals. Cupping refers to flat spots or actual spots where it looks like the rubber has been cut away with a knife or something. The longer this condition goes unattended, the worse the tires will get until a time that they are unsafe. This condition usually can also be felt in the steering wheel like a high speed vibration when the flat spots come into contact with the road and will also expedite wear on the front end. The worn front end will also cause the truck to do strange thing like dart to one side for no reason. I have towed cars in with broken ball joints where the people left the vehicle get so bad, the suspension parts actually failed.<br><br>The balance part you hit on the money when you said it is contingent on the skill of the balancer or machine operator. I have not found a good place that can even balance the tires on these dually trucks yet. In the hands of the wrong person, a perfectly good tire can be ruined by applying weights in the wrong locations or applying them when not required. This seems to be even worse with the wheels we have. That is why I told them not to balance when I had my first replacement set installed.<br><br>Didn't mean to make this a short novel but just trying to let you know what I have learned over the years. I'm sure there are those that would argue my every point but this has worked for me. I guess the bottom line is to read the tires, know the vehicle and how it is acting, (steering wheel vibration, pulling to one side, etc) and make the call by what makes you feel better. I have had my truck up to 85 mph on the highway and it goes straight down the road with no bouncing or anything. I even jacked it up on blocks on all four corners and run it up to 90 to see if there were any noises or vibration, nothing.<br><br>There is a specific pattern that needs to be followed when rotating the dually tires. Make sure your shop knows what that pattern is and make sure they match up the two alignment holes on the wheels on the rear when installing the duals. Read your tires, know the vehicle, and do what makes you feel best. These are very expensive trucks so don't short yourself to save a few dollars on rotation.<br><br>(falls asleep at the keyboard,fadfjkgpirutrjrdkjvhh, OOPS)<br><br>Good luck and hope this helped in some small way.<br><br>Dieseldude4x4

TGCTD

Any Question is a good question,Ladyram. I have over 20 years as a automotive/Lt truck mechanic,so i will give you the skinny on this. Tire rotation&amp; balance is very important especiallly on 4X4's. Tire rotation extends the life of you're tires by keeping you're tread wear even. With the Dodge's they seem to chop the front tires quicker due to the accel &amp; decel of the axle joints. Plus even slight deveations in tire height causes axle wind up and difficulty getting into &amp; out of 4X4,due to the Accel &amp; decel of the differential on turns.I recommend that you rotate your tires every oil change as described in your owners manual,that is cross switching your rear tires to the front and switching the fronts straight back to the rears,staying on the same side As for tire balance. Tires are balanced to counteract the centifugal forces from hard spots cast into the tires when manufactured. That is too say if you have a hard spot that weighs 1oz. trying to fly into outer space every time the tire rotates,you feel it as a vibration. To correct this a weight is tacked to the wheel 180 deg. of the hard spot, that weighs an equal weight of the hardspot. Several hardspots can be in one tire,and as the tire wears these hard spots get lighter,and therfore need correction. There isn't any time/mileage recommendations i can give you other than you may want to have them checked at somewhere between 15-20 K, or when you start to feel that they are vibrating. Hope this helps. TGCTD

TGCTD

Ladyram, I just realized that you had a dually instead of a single rear wheel.(Only read your last post) Now after reading all the posts,ignore what i said about your rotation pattern,it only applies to singles. Follow the owners manual for duallies. Also follow the recommended tire pressures. This too is very important to tire life and safety. Underinflated tires not only cause increased tire wear,they are also one of the leading causes of tire blowout &amp; hydroplaning. As for tire brands i agree about the differances in brand quality. The better the quality the least amount of hard spots cast into them at manufacturing. As for the mechanics that so many of you are having difficulty with,i feel that if you have to babysit your mechanic to get quality repairs,then you really want to find a better mechanic or repair facility. Yes balancing as all repairs depends on the person performing the operation. Since tire balancing is one of the most basic of services,would you trust this person to repair your Cummins or worse yet your Brakes!