New trailer - need advice
07-29-2004 | 06:13 AM
#1
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New trailer - need advice
I just bought my first gooseneck, a "Take 3" brand 50 foot car hauler. It is a 1999 model with flip outs front and back and a 9k winch in very good condition I picked it up for $5400. I am not familiar with gooseneck trailering and have done single car trailer towing only. I do not have a G/N hitch yet and the guy in town is setting me up with a Drawtite 25K removable hitch so I can easily switch to a 5th wheel later if I want to. Does this sound like a good option and will a 25K hitch be enough for the trailer and cargo. I have not weighed the new trailer so I do not know its weight empty but I am guessing 7500. I need a few answers to some questions. I only haul my cars, I do not tow for others, I am a small dealer.
1)What are my requirements for towing legally in all 50 states as I frequently go out of state to auctions.
2) The trailer is rated at 15K - Does that number include cargo and the trailer, or just cargo? If I had three cars at 4000 each on there the trailer could only weigh 3000 and my single car hauler weighs that so I know I would be over. Can the rating on the trailer be changed?
3) If my truck is licenced for 16K can I haul that trailer and still be legal for the DMV or do I need to increase the limit I am tagged for on my truck? If I increase that number do I include the trailer weight the truck and the cargo? Does anyone know the max weight I can haul on a G/N trailer with a 2004 3500 longbed dually 4x4?
4) Since I am not a commercial truck do I have to go through scales?
5) What is the max limit I can haul behind me without having a CDL?
6) If the truck is hooked to the trailer does insurance on the truck cover the trialer or do I need seperate insurance for the trailer.
Thanks for any information that you can provide.
1)What are my requirements for towing legally in all 50 states as I frequently go out of state to auctions.
2) The trailer is rated at 15K - Does that number include cargo and the trailer, or just cargo? If I had three cars at 4000 each on there the trailer could only weigh 3000 and my single car hauler weighs that so I know I would be over. Can the rating on the trailer be changed?
3) If my truck is licenced for 16K can I haul that trailer and still be legal for the DMV or do I need to increase the limit I am tagged for on my truck? If I increase that number do I include the trailer weight the truck and the cargo? Does anyone know the max weight I can haul on a G/N trailer with a 2004 3500 longbed dually 4x4?
4) Since I am not a commercial truck do I have to go through scales?
5) What is the max limit I can haul behind me without having a CDL?
6) If the truck is hooked to the trailer does insurance on the truck cover the trialer or do I need seperate insurance for the trailer.
Thanks for any information that you can provide.
07-29-2004 | 08:14 AM
#2
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 405
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From: Cookeville, Tn
B&M has a nice flip ball GN hitch you can buy a 5th wheel and it slides in.
2. I'm guessing if the trailer says 15000# that is gross trailer and cargo
3. In Tenn. the tag on your truck has to cover the total weight truck and trailer
4. Actually you are comm. you're hauling for your lot which is comm.
5. Max limit is 25999# before you have to have a CDL
6. Depending on your insurance it will cover the trailer but no cargo is covered that is seperate.
My opinion you should just tell the cars are yours personally and skip the comm. insurance, DOT numbers, scales. Not that I would try to get you to break the law just a suggestion.
Good luck!
Barry
2. I'm guessing if the trailer says 15000# that is gross trailer and cargo
3. In Tenn. the tag on your truck has to cover the total weight truck and trailer
4. Actually you are comm. you're hauling for your lot which is comm.
5. Max limit is 25999# before you have to have a CDL
6. Depending on your insurance it will cover the trailer but no cargo is covered that is seperate.
My opinion you should just tell the cars are yours personally and skip the comm. insurance, DOT numbers, scales. Not that I would try to get you to break the law just a suggestion.
Good luck!
Barry
07-29-2004 | 09:00 AM
#3
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A lot of the weight thing makes no sense to me. If I tag my truck properly then I need to cover the truck, trailer and cargo.
4 cars at 3500 each = 14000
trailer = at least 7500
truck weighs 8000
total is 29500
Which means I need a CDL. Am I right, if not then how do all of these other guys haul cars with a full load and only a dually?
4 cars at 3500 each = 14000
trailer = at least 7500
truck weighs 8000
total is 29500
Which means I need a CDL. Am I right, if not then how do all of these other guys haul cars with a full load and only a dually?
07-29-2004 | 09:55 AM
#4
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5
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From: Mesquite TX.
If you travel out of state and you're truck's GVWR is over 10K. or truck and trailer
is over 25,999 .
You must have F.M.C.A. registration.
You will be Comm.
Ins. requirement , 1mil libility 100,000 cargo ins.
single state registration for each state you travel in.
log book.
In other words welcome to the world of big trucks.
Passing scales is a very big fine.
Pulling into scales without you're authorty papers also Big fine. I hope this helps
Pardon spelling.
is over 25,999 .
You must have F.M.C.A. registration.
You will be Comm.
Ins. requirement , 1mil libility 100,000 cargo ins.
single state registration for each state you travel in.
log book.
In other words welcome to the world of big trucks.
Passing scales is a very big fine.
Pulling into scales without you're authorty papers also Big fine. I hope this helps
Pardon spelling.
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07-29-2004 | 10:18 AM
#8
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,787
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From: Central VT
gdh11, you are having a lot of different answers, so I will give you even more different ones
Get a USDOT #...
http://www.usdotnumberregistration.com/
It is free and will take a few minutes. From what you are saying, you are Commercial, Interstate and Private (not for hire). It might answer some of your questions and you will need it eventually anyway.
Since these are YOUR cars, you don't need cargo insurance. But since you are in the business of selling cars, you are technically commercial. I assume you have insurance on these vehicles while they're sitting in your lot. Ask your insurance agency if they are covered if YOU haul them with YOUR own truck and trailer. If they're not, then you will want cargo insurance.
You don't need 1 million of liability. You might need 750,000 (you might need less?) but I can't remember the federal motor carrier site where it tells me. Most insurance agencies will automaticaly cover anything you hook up to your truck as part of the liability insurance however they should know you are hauling commercially and you'll want to ask them to confirm it is covered.
If the Take3 trailer uses a GN not a 5th wheel, get a GN hitch. A lot of us use B&W which are rated at 30,000 TOWED weight (not GCW) with a 7500 pin weight.
Are you sure the trailer is only rated at 15,000? A 3 axle 50 footer is usually rated at at LEAST 18,000 (3x6000# axles). The previous customer may have asked Take3 to "tag it down" to 15,000 so he'd be under 26,000 GCW. For you, your truck's GVW is 12,000 right? Then you'd need it to be a 14,000 GVW in order to be at 26,000.
Legally from what I have heard from Haulin_in_dixie (on this site) who hauls for a living, the GCW is going to be determined by taking the GVW of the truck + the GVW of the trailer. If your truck is 12,000 + 15,000, you're at 27,000.
In many states you can drive an articulating vehicle (truck+trailer) with a GCW up to 26,000 without a CDL. Some states will require you to have a CDL merely if the GVW of the trailer is over 10,000. You have to check each state you plan on traveling through.
Get a USDOT #...
http://www.usdotnumberregistration.com/
It is free and will take a few minutes. From what you are saying, you are Commercial, Interstate and Private (not for hire). It might answer some of your questions and you will need it eventually anyway.
Since these are YOUR cars, you don't need cargo insurance. But since you are in the business of selling cars, you are technically commercial. I assume you have insurance on these vehicles while they're sitting in your lot. Ask your insurance agency if they are covered if YOU haul them with YOUR own truck and trailer. If they're not, then you will want cargo insurance.
You don't need 1 million of liability. You might need 750,000 (you might need less?) but I can't remember the federal motor carrier site where it tells me. Most insurance agencies will automaticaly cover anything you hook up to your truck as part of the liability insurance however they should know you are hauling commercially and you'll want to ask them to confirm it is covered.
If the Take3 trailer uses a GN not a 5th wheel, get a GN hitch. A lot of us use B&W which are rated at 30,000 TOWED weight (not GCW) with a 7500 pin weight.
Are you sure the trailer is only rated at 15,000? A 3 axle 50 footer is usually rated at at LEAST 18,000 (3x6000# axles). The previous customer may have asked Take3 to "tag it down" to 15,000 so he'd be under 26,000 GCW. For you, your truck's GVW is 12,000 right? Then you'd need it to be a 14,000 GVW in order to be at 26,000.
Legally from what I have heard from Haulin_in_dixie (on this site) who hauls for a living, the GCW is going to be determined by taking the GVW of the truck + the GVW of the trailer. If your truck is 12,000 + 15,000, you're at 27,000.
In many states you can drive an articulating vehicle (truck+trailer) with a GCW up to 26,000 without a CDL. Some states will require you to have a CDL merely if the GVW of the trailer is over 10,000. You have to check each state you plan on traveling through.
07-29-2004 | 10:21 AM
#9
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,686
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From: Battle Creek Michigan
i just purhased a 53' gooseneck (46' of deck) that i am using to haul horse buggies. toal weight loaded will probably never exceed 10,000 pounds. do i have any "regulation" stuff to be concerned with?
My son is enroute to ariz cal and montana with it now.
My son is enroute to ariz cal and montana with it now.
07-29-2004 | 10:26 AM
#10
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Posts: n/a
I just got off the phone with my local state motor carrier enforcemnet office. He told me that I need a special endorsment on my license if the trailer is rated over 10K. He also said I do not need a CDL unless I have a GCW of over 26,001 lbs.
As far as insurance my truck is registered to me personally and not in the business name, so is the trailer and as far as they are concerned it is not a commercial policy. I do not do this full time.
Lots of different rules and different answers. I just want to at least attempt to comply without it costing me four thousnad dollars a year for insurance.
The cars are all mine, the business is a sole propietor (me) and I do not have insurance on my cars at the lot.
Does that help?
As far as insurance my truck is registered to me personally and not in the business name, so is the trailer and as far as they are concerned it is not a commercial policy. I do not do this full time.
Lots of different rules and different answers. I just want to at least attempt to comply without it costing me four thousnad dollars a year for insurance.
The cars are all mine, the business is a sole propietor (me) and I do not have insurance on my cars at the lot.
Does that help?
07-29-2004 | 10:33 AM
#11
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5
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From: Mesquite TX.
These are Federal Motor Carrier rules.
All states must comply to these.
Other things you will need .
1. cdl
2. health card
3. drug testing
4. fuel reports to pay ea. state extra fuel tax.
I know this is all scary but I want anybody to get started with eyes wide open
I used a company called Road Manager to help me get set up.
They charged about $300.00 but it was well worh it.
But you can file for you're authorty with F.M.C.A. on line.
All states must comply to these.
Other things you will need .
1. cdl
2. health card
3. drug testing
4. fuel reports to pay ea. state extra fuel tax.
I know this is all scary but I want anybody to get started with eyes wide open
I used a company called Road Manager to help me get set up.
They charged about $300.00 but it was well worh it.
But you can file for you're authorty with F.M.C.A. on line.
07-29-2004 | 01:41 PM
#13
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,787
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From: Central VT
It is really unfortunate that there are so many discrepencies from state to state and even WITHIN states. This is straight from the North Carolina CDL manual:
There is NOTHING that says a CDL (or any endorsement) is required with a GCW(R) of 26,000 and a trailer GVW of > 10,000.
EDIT:
I had to go to the regular NON-CDL manual to find this:
Classified Licenses
Class A – Required to operate any combination
of vehicles exempt from CDL requirements with
a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001
pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the
vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000
pounds. Also required for operating any combination
of vehicles with a GVWR of less than
26,001 pounds, if the vehicle being towed has a
GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds.
It seems like this is FEE based and not SKILL based?
Commercial Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the GVWR or the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Commercial Class B - Any single vehicle with a GVWR or 26,001 pounds or more, and any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Commercial Class C - Any vehicle not described in Class A or B above but is:
Designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
Used in the transportation of hazardous materials that require the vehicle to be placarded under C.F.R., Part 172, Subpart F.
Commercial Class B - Any single vehicle with a GVWR or 26,001 pounds or more, and any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Commercial Class C - Any vehicle not described in Class A or B above but is:
Designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
Used in the transportation of hazardous materials that require the vehicle to be placarded under C.F.R., Part 172, Subpart F.
EDIT:
I had to go to the regular NON-CDL manual to find this:
Classified Licenses
Class A – Required to operate any combination
of vehicles exempt from CDL requirements with
a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001
pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the
vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000
pounds. Also required for operating any combination
of vehicles with a GVWR of less than
26,001 pounds, if the vehicle being towed has a
GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds.
It seems like this is FEE based and not SKILL based?
07-29-2004 | 01:51 PM
#14
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Got it- that matches up with what the Enforcement Officer told me. As long as I stay under 26K or 26,001 to be exact and my trailer is rated for over 10K then I only need a Classified A endorsement on my DL.
Now the question begs why aren't all of the states on the same sheet of music so there is consistency between the different states? Wouldn't it make sense so it makes it easier on everyone involved in the trucking business?
He also told me that I should hit all scales??
Now the question begs why aren't all of the states on the same sheet of music so there is consistency between the different states? Wouldn't it make sense so it makes it easier on everyone involved in the trucking business?
He also told me that I should hit all scales??
07-29-2004 | 02:00 PM
#15
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,170
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From: Hollidaysburg PA
I'm from PA, here's how PA works.
Keep your total weight under 26,000 and don't worry about all the other b.s. even state to state.
You can't use a 3 car trailer and be under 26,000.
Your truck is 12,000 gvw and the 3 axle trailer would be 18,000 or 21,000. I see you say it's 15,000, still over at 27,000.
I bought a 2 car trailer for this reason. truck is 11,000 and trailer is 14,000.
Here in PA they watch the auctions and will pull you over and fine you if you are illegal, a 3 car trailer waves a big red flag, very hard to get 3 cars on and stay under 26,000.
You can't use dealer tags on your truck either. You should have a physical card for over 17,000 gcwr.
You need have your truck licensed for your gcwr. I have class 8 up to 26,000 for 405.00 per year.
Don't forget the pin weight doesn't count as weight on your trailer. It's on the trucks rear axle. 7,500 rear and 4,500 front
Keep your total weight under 26,000 and don't worry about all the other b.s. even state to state.
You can't use a 3 car trailer and be under 26,000.
Your truck is 12,000 gvw and the 3 axle trailer would be 18,000 or 21,000. I see you say it's 15,000, still over at 27,000.
I bought a 2 car trailer for this reason. truck is 11,000 and trailer is 14,000.
Here in PA they watch the auctions and will pull you over and fine you if you are illegal, a 3 car trailer waves a big red flag, very hard to get 3 cars on and stay under 26,000.
You can't use dealer tags on your truck either. You should have a physical card for over 17,000 gcwr.
You need have your truck licensed for your gcwr. I have class 8 up to 26,000 for 405.00 per year.
Don't forget the pin weight doesn't count as weight on your trailer. It's on the trucks rear axle. 7,500 rear and 4,500 front