http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/home.html


2002 dodge ram 2500/3500 pickup reg cab 3500 SLT, REGULAR CAB, 4WD, LWB Bed, Transmission - Four-Speed Automatic 47RE, Engine - 5.9-liter 24-Valve Cummins Turbo Diesel:

With Axle Ratio - 3:55 Axle Ratio [i] You Can Tow 9350 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) [i] = 10500 lbs
Payload [i] = 4023 lbs
Curb Weight [i] = 6477 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 3910 lbs/3910 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear [i] = 5200 lbs/7500 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) [i] = 16000 lbs

With Axle Ratio - 4:10 Axle Ratio [i] You Can Tow 12350 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) [i] = 10500 lbs
Payload [i] = 4023 lbs
Curb Weight [i] = 6477 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 3910 lbs/3910 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear [i] = 5200 lbs/7500 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) [i] = 19000 lbs


You'll get better and more in-depth answers at RV.net for your question:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...s/forum/24.cfm

Start by putting the truck on a certified scale

http://catscale.findlocation.com/

when loaded with driver, passenger, full fuel and everything the truck will carry on a camping trip. No guesstimates. Take a Saturday and load it up. You want both FF/RR axle weights.

Then, with this info, post your question on the above, linked subforum.

A current 37' Keystone Montana weighs 12+ empty, and is rated to carry 15.5 at GVWR. Likely, at 85% of CCC you'll be at 13.2

22% of 13.2 is 2,900-lbs.

What's the remaining payload of your truck once the actual scale weight is figured? What is the weight of the hitch contemplated? AIRSAVR? Other?

You need to work from factory (owners manual) numbers: payload, GAWR and GVWR. You also need proper tires no more than five years old.

Whatever trailer you decide on an EB is recommended by DODGE for trailers above 10k, and the above referenced brake controllers are a no-brainer.

As well you should consider upgrading the trailer brakes to disc. There is no substitute.

Take this over to RV.net before you burn thru some money.

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gofastman; You read but do not comprehend. TX residents would need a non-commercial class A DL for that combo. His state might have similar requirements for it's residents. Nowhere did I state or infer that non-residents of TX would have to comply with TX requirements.

Rednax; You are obviously a card carrying member of the RV.Net weight police. All that owners manual mumbo-jumbo about GCWR, towing weight limits and other malarky means nothing because it is not based on any industry standard. There is no industry standard at this time for light duty pickups, but there will be in a year or two. When that is published and subscribed to by the automakes then have at it. In the meantime the REALLY heavy haulers i.e. hotshotters and farmers will just keep laughing at those puny numbers.

 

That auto trans really cuts into what you can tow with the 2002. I have a 2001.5 2500 with the 6 speed, and my GCWR is 20K lbs. Of course the 6 speed got the Dana 80 rear end too.

 

Someone said something about being able to get into certain campgrounds. This is a fact that there are only a select number of campgrounds able to handle a rig of that size. The good news is that there are alot of new campgrounds being built and they are alot nicer than the old ones. You still would have plenty of campgrounds able to handle that rig.

 

Thanks for all the comments. We really liked the slides on both sides if the living area in the Montana, because of all the room. Maybe we should look at smaller trailers, 32' to 33', with the same layout. We would like to do some national park camping out west. Some have said it is hard to find a site for big 5th wheels in N.P.'s.

I'm ok with upgrading the trans, torque converter, and making some changes in the pump, but I really don't want to go to 4:10 gears. I really like the fuel milage with the 3:54.

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about going slow in the mountains. Your foot is in it all the way to the top of each climb, right? Do you mean manually downshift the auto trans to a lower gear and stay there? I don't have an exhaust temp gage, so I probably should get one.

Thanks for the exhaust brake suggestions. That's something else I didn't consider.

 

I only go as fast as I can be safe. That being up hill as well as especially down hill.

I'm not sure why you'd "need" 4.10's but they'd help with the load if the truck was used for nothing but tugging around your huge trailer. Cant speak much else regarding that.

Shifting the tranny manually isn't necessary but choosing the right gear before a hill instead of letting the tranny choosing after you're already in the hill usually yields a cooler tranny since gear hunting and locking/unlocking torque converters can get the tranny hot in a hurry.

As for camp grounds, I'd pick the trailer that suits you best and then just be prepared ahead of time for park limits. At the very least, if you cant pre plan then there's always the Wal-mart parking lots to get you through the night. Or try calling around to other states RV parks and see what kind of answers you get.

And gauges are extremely useful. I actually drive by my boost, EGT, and fuel pressure far more than I drive by any other OEM dash gauge. But you wouldn't need fuel pressure gauge with a 12v. You would want a tranny temp gauge instead.

 

well talking a "want to be know it all" is a waste of time, enjoy your dreamland

 

Enjoy my dreamland? I have no idea what you are saying, so what exactly do you not agree with?

1. TX residents with RV combos over 26,000 GCWR require a non-commercial class A drivers license.

2. Other states may have a similar requirment for their residents (for instance CA residents are required to have a non-commercial class A DL if the GVWR of their 5er is over 15,000 or TT over 10,000 regardless of GCWR)

3. Non-residents of TX would not have to comply with TX requirements while in state.

 

LMAO... That sure does sound like a RV.net comment, but I've never seen that user name.
FWIW my 06 stocker does just fine with a 15500 GVWR fiver. EB is the best money I have ever spent.

 

WHOA - - - been following this but the above statement REALLY catches my eye. 3:54 rear end for 14K? No way, Jose. You will be really disappointed at that. I have a 4.10 for 16K and it does great. My 3:73 was NOT great. As for mileage, if I keep my speed down, I do fine on mileage. 20 at 65. But, the mileage while towing is actually better with the lower geared rear end.

My trailer measures out at 37'. There are some National Parks I cannot get into, but if I plan ahead I don't have many problems finding great places. Many parks have a few spots that can handle the longer rig. So, don't let that scare you. And exhaust brake - - YES YES YES. Really nice coming down 10 or 12% grade without touching your brakes. Plus, the safety factor of holding your speed without brakes is amazing if you need to use your brakes in an emergency. Almost brakes as if on flat ground. Good luck with your choices.

Bob

 

Rednax; You are obviously a card carrying member of the RV.Net weight police. All that owners manual mumbo-jumbo about GCWR, towing weight limits and other malarky means nothing because it is not based on any industry standard. There is no industry standard at this time for light duty pickups, but there will be in a year or two. When that is published and subscribed to by the automakes then have at it. In the meantime the REALLY heavy haulers i.e. hotshotters and farmers will just keep laughing at those puny numbers.

You care to explain the basis for anything you wrote? As in, "industry standard"? The basis for any vehicle operation is state & federal law. The law recognizes vehicle or tire manufacturer limits. These, in turn, are not from thin air . . . ignoring them leaves one open to questions of negligence. And, yes, lawsuits have been prosecuted on this basis. If a truck frame failed with a 500-lb load in the bed, the manufacturer would be liable. A liability no different for the operator who grossly overloads a truck and an accident occurs. Fault will be found.

If one thinks the voluntary J2807 SAE standard will somehow change or rectify this, think again. That's nothing more than protection for the truck & trailer manufacturers the way it is written. The vehicle operator is on his own, completely, once he exceeds any parameter then or now.

Arguing about "too low" or "not high enough" are beside the point. It may appear to be a grey area -- the difference between manufacturer ratings and what others "get away with" (licensed weights and such) -- but we're still liable for our actions. Violating weight ratings is easily seen as willful negligence as ignorance of those ratings is no defense.

The OP is still advised to take the rig to a certified scale and work the numbers. It's easy, dirt cheap and establishes a proper baseline.

What he does past that is a risk he has to be willing to take. Stupid is one thing, but ignorant and stupid is quite another.

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We love our montana 3500.I towed this beast the first time with a single wheel truck scared the hell out of me in the mountains.Put a 3500 dually under it handels it much better.Gross on truck is 23000 loaded on the cat scales at 22600.I drive for a living a rig that size needs a dually under it think of blowing a rear tire on a curve at the bottom of 6-10 percent hill.Its also a hand full in heavy cross winds.I came across south dakota pushing 30# of boost for 300 miles got six mpg's.I also run a quad box and usualy run an extra 100 hp when towing and can still struggle on some long up hill grades.

 

Once again, the RV.Net weight police dogma. Let's look at them in order.

Industry standard? There isn't even a Dodge standard for GCWR. I could probably give you dozens of examples with a little research. Here is one; The Dodge GCWR of my 12 valve, 5 speed, 3.54 geared, non-California duelly is 20,000. The '98 identicle pickup is 18,000, but magically jumped back up to 20,000 when the 24 valve was installed.

You have one thing right. State and federal law dictate vehicle operation, but not in the way you profess. States determine how much you have to pay to register your vehicle. Some states require you to pay for the maximum weight you will be operating at. Some allow you to pay for as much weight as you want or need. Some states have no weight requirements and register pickups as passenger vehicles. Other states identify all pickups as commercial, even the Lincoln Mark LTs driven by suburban yuppies. Just because a license plate has the word "commercial" stamped into it does not make it a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) as defined by federal regulations. States also determine the class of drivers license their residents have to have while driving non commercial vehicles. CA requires a class A CDL for recreational doubles and cargo trailers over 10,000 GVWR but has a non-commercial class A for heavy 5ers and TTs. Texas has a non-commercial class A that mirrors the weight requirements of a CDL. Other states have recreational doubles endorsements. As a general rule, if your license meets your state's requirements you are legal to drive in all the other states.

Federal regulations primarly affect interstate CMVs. Drivers license requirements are uniform in all states. For the most part axle weight limits are the same, regardless of vehicle type, and are designed to keep road damage to a minimum.

As an RVer, your contact with the real weight police, i.e., those with badges and guns, is pretty limited. Normally, it would be a traffic stop for speeding, failure to stop, illegal lane change, etc. You might be stopped for a weight check in your home state, but it would be for determining if you are adequately registered for the weight of your vehicle. LEOs do not know, or care, what the manufacturers GCWR of your pickup is. LEOs outside your state can not enforce weight registration requirements outside their state, so if the tags are not expired your actual weight is moot.

Commercial drivers, on the other hand, are in contact with the weight police on a daily basis. The DOT numbers on the side of a pickup might as well read ATM as far as the states are concerned. If hauling a 30,000 pound duel wheel, tandem axle trailer with a 3500 was illegal they would be on it like white on rice. If the driver has the right DL and is registered for the weight, then it is no problem. In the seven plus years I have been driving I have gone through several road side and weigh station checks. Not once has the inspector looked at the GVWR or axle weight limits on the VIN tag. As a side note, the axle weight limits shown on my pickup's tag are with load range D tires. Since I have load range E, those numbers are pretty useless. Not once has he searched through my owners manual to find the manufacturer's GCWR. Inspection of the tires is for tread depth. The numbers on the side, again are useless. Max weight listed is at a certain psi. What is the max weight if they are filled to less than 80 psi, or 110 on the G rated trailer tires?

So no, the law does not recognize vehicle manufacturer limits and yes, they are from thin air.

Is that enough explanation?

Not a pickup, but a pretty good example why your statements do not hold water. I took this picture at a rest stop in NM. The car was from CA, so it had operated like this in at least three states. Note the lack of police writing tickets.



Here is a Dodge pickup load, totally legal.

 

Living and working in snowbird country I've seen alot of trucks modded in an attempt to be made something they're not, just to disappoint the owner with broken parts and finding the next weak link. I'm betting in the end you'd be much happier with a newer truck that is more suited to pulling the weight you are looking at.

 

hmmmm those number seem to mirror the MANUFACTURERS recommendations. I personally could care less about an "industry standard", but if the people who built my rig recommend a max trailer weight of (example)12k, why would I think it's ok to pull 15k? Sure you can, but you would be sacrificing the longetivity of the truck. Why beat it up?