Hello,

I have a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 Quad Cab Laramine 6ft bed with the Diesel engine and 4 speed auto, 4.10 axle ratio and towing package. According to Dodge's site, I have a towing capacity of 13050 lbs and a payload capacity of 2187.

I'm currently towing a 26ft Salem 5th wheel with one slide, which is about 8000 lbs with a pin weight of about 1200.

I'm interested in upgrading to a 32' 5th wheel trailer that is 10,280 dry and 12000 GVWR. I was told the pin weight was 2,310 but it might be less than that. Assuming it's 2,310, plus my Reese hitch and rails at about 150lbs, I'm close to 2,500 lbs in the bed.

What can I do to safely increase the payload capacity of the 2500 to about 2,500 or more?

 

Darrennye, inflate your rear tires to 80 PSI. This will give you 3145 # per tire, times 2 = 6290 pounds payload in the rear. Subtract your 2500# rear axle weight and you have 3790# of payload left on those tires before you reach their limit. I think you are WAY safe. If you feel like you need to be safer, you could get a sway bar, air bags or timbrens. I think you'll be happy with the 4.10s and the automatic. Enjoy!

p.s. you could check out the towing guide in my sig.

 

Wouldn't adding sway bars, timbrens or other - and then towing a vehicle with a payload higher than what the truck is rated for, void the warranty? I also have an extended warranty, which might also be an issue.

 

i installed the airbags and absolutly love them. last week was the first test and loaded up some dirt from the back yard and prettymuch filled the bed. had 50# of air in them and the truck sat like stock. i didnt know how much wieght i had back there till i went to the landfill. ****, the bill was 75 bucks on the way out. i had 3877#s in there and i seriously couldnt tell the diff while driving on the freeway. i cant wait to hook up the 5er and feel the diff.

 

Darrennye,

I have 2500 2004.5 CTD with front leveling kit, Hellwig rear sway bar & Timbrens. The only reason I added Timbrens was to help with just a little height in rear when I load the 32" 5er. The springs you have on the rear of your truck are a plenty for 2300# in bed. You will get firm/stable caddylak type ride. My Timbrens are the "2500" model and make the rear of my truck a little bouncy & porpoise a little. Timbren is shipping me a set that are a little softer. Your biggest worry are your tires. If you have 10ply tires you will be OK.

 

The legal answer is NO. You cannot increase your payload weight capability. The other reason for NO is that you will not be safe driving with that sort of weight, what I mean is we, the other people on the road will not be safe with you on the road with that sort of weight on that truck.
What you really need to do is get a 3500 dually to properly handle that weight.
Increasing the tire pressure to 80 psi will only mess up the handling of the truck from what is was designed. The rear tires should be at 75psi anyway, by specs for towing.
The reason yo need to upgrade your truck is because your payload also includes your passengers and anything else you put in the truck, so you will be way over weight.
You also have to take into account what happens if you have an accident, they will first determine that you are infact overloaded and then no matter what it's your fault because you were not in complete control due to load.

OK I'll get off my box now, it's just my .005 cents worth

 

The tires are rated to 3195 # at 80 PSI inflating them to 80 psi is only going to make the ride stiffer and more stable and hold more weight.

3195 * 2 is 6390 pounds. Subtract is stock weight of 2500# then his pin weight of 2500 # (over estimating) and he still has 1390# before he even reaches the tire limits.
The GVW of his truck is what, 9000#? The GVW of his trailer 12,000#. His GCWR is 21,000#. His rear axle is rated to 11,000#. i don't see any problem here.

technically yes, he'll be over the dodge GVW but he will not be over the axle, spring or tire ratings.

 

Let me clarify, nothing is going to make the numbers on your door tag higher. to tow what you want to tow, i dont personally think you need to do anything but inflate your tires up to 80 PSI, get a good brake controlller and be careful. you don't need sway bars, you don't need timbrens and you don't need a dually. your truck is underrated. don't tell the dealer how much you are towing and they won't know. this is all my opinion but there's a lot of cold hard facts to support it, tire ratings, brake ratings, spring ratings, etc.

you guys have to be realistic- a lot of this is MARKETING. from a mechanical standpoint (not legal), the truck is WAY underrated.

a dodge ram 3500 single rear wheel has a GVW of 9900 and a 2500 has a GVW of 9000. the only mechanical difference is overload springs on the rear packs....

 

It all sounds good EXCEPT persuant to Minnesota staute 169.81 Subd.3c (1) :the combination does not consist of more than three vehicles,and the towing rating of the pickup truck is equal to or geater than the total weight of all vehicles being towed;
I am sure that other states have similar provisions in their statute also.
Tom

 

The Dodge "towing rating" is also relatively fabricated. It is also not an "official" number by any means.

Where on your truck does it say the "towing rating" or the "gross combined weight rating" The answer is no where. Gross combined weight rating is calculated by the GVW of truck + GVW of trailer, so in his case, 9000# + 12000# = 21,000# There are other ways of calculating the GCW or GCWR but they're all based on the GVW and/or actual weights.

The "Towing rating" is what Dodge wants you to tow so you don't come in for a new transmission under warranty. Think about it. Example, The dodge "tow rating" for a 3500 dually 4.10 geared truck is 23,000 but a 3500 dually with 3.73s is 21,000. Since when did differential gears make your truck safer than mine to tow another 2000#. It isn't any safer. 4.10's is easier on the engine, driveline and transmission, that's why it's higher.

I am not encouraging unsafe towing nor will I be your lawyer if you get in trouble for it, I'm merely pointing out that not everything DC says is true and that "tow ratings" are a marketing number and for warranty's safe, not a safety rating.

 

I am not saying that the Dodge rating is the maximum capable. What I am pointing out is that Dodge has a CGVW of 16,000 pounds for my particular truck. If the state of Minnesota decides to weigh me and the weight is more than 16,000 pounds I will receive a citation for being in violation of Mn statute 169.81. In other words I will get an overweight ticket. As far as the Dodge weight being "official", the State of Mn conciders it "official".
Njoverkill, I don't quite understand what you mean by the weight rating is 'relatively fabricated'. Can you explain it to me?

 

My point is this, where are you getting the "tow rating" or "gross combined weight rating" of the truck?

How on earth would the state of Minnesota know that it's 16,000#? Do they have a copy of the 1996 Dodge 2500 sales brochure or the owners manual?

On the other hand, the GVW is something that MUST be on every single truck and trailer, so they use that.

Gross Combination Weight Rating or GCWR. – "Gross combination weight rating" or "GCWR" shall be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon or registered weight rating, whichever is greater.

Anyway I will shut up now. The bottom line is be safe.

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, but I also have to ask, where is the GCWR stamped on my truck? I've never seen it. To be a legally binding rating, shouldn't that number be stamped on the truck somewhere, like the GVWR and axle ratings are? How can anyone enforce a rating that isn't included on the vehicle information tag?

I'm not trying to be facetious here. I have always wanted to know the legality of enforcing the GCWR. Most people say that it cannot be enforced. I even asked the Colorado State Patrol and they basically said "don't exceed it, BUT we have no way of knowing or proving if you do."

I also wonder about the logic of DC's GCWR and their tow rating. If you use the Dodge Towing Guide you will find that all the 3500s with 4.10 gears have the same GCWR of 23K lbs. But because a SRW truck has a lower curb weight than a DRW, it can tow more than a DRW without exceeding the GCWR. If you have a quad cab, the truck with the highest tow rating would be a shortbed, 3500, SRW with 4.10s and an auto. It can tow 500 lbs. more than a DRW 3500 with the same drivetrain. Does that make sense from a safety standpoint? Would you like to see somebody with a 39', 16K lb. triple slide Fiver on a shortbed, SRW, 3500 coming at you on the highway? Wouldn't you think this load was safer on a DRW truck?

Prior to 2003, many of the 2500s had higher tow ratings than many of the 3500s because they had the same GCWR, but the 2500s weighed less. This is how DC rated them.

So I have to say that sometimes I wonder about the credibility of manufacturer GCWR figures. But they are all I have to go by so I do my best to abide by them and stay within those limits.

The sad thing is that if I upgrade from my 01 2500 short bed to an 05 3500 DRW with a 6 speed and 3.73 gears, I actually lose 150 lbs. in towing capacity according to the 2001 and 2005 Dodge Towing Guides. I have a GCWR of 20K lbs. and the new 3500 DRW has a GCWR of 21K lbs. But because it has a curb weight so much higher than my truck does, my tow rating would drop. Go figure?!

 

May I give you guys some honest figures. I weighed my 2004.5 CTD 4.10 auto with 6' box with Superglide hitch.

Mty it weighs with 2 persons 8000# GVW is 9000#

4580 front mty
3420 rear mty

With my loaded 32" 5er 4720 front
5380 rear total 10,100#

Total Gross of both 18660#

Well under total gross for that truck and truck is only 1,100# over GVW. According to the seat of my pants this truck can easily handle another 500-600# in bed and still not straighten out the rear springs and could handle a bit larger 5er.

 

Didn't we just go through all this with New Hampshire as the state you could not tow in? Camper sales must suffer in your state Better get into the definations in the state statute and figure out what is the legal defination of "towing" is in that law. I doubt very much that towing means a gooseneck or fifth wheel.

Good law though, get all them 35 foot tag alongs off the road. Save a lot of lives.

The worst misinformation on a forum is those that say what the law is and have not a clue. Hook up your fifth wheel, make sure you don't go over the tire capacity or go to heavier tires and enjoy.