fireram

I think I would like to finally start to get my truck to make me money, instead of costing me.

I am looking into hauling lumber, a short distance, 600 to 1200km roundtrip.

For the profit to work out well for me, I would need to haul around 8000 board feet per load, its softwood and weighs around 2lbs per bd.ft. so I figure at most trailer load would be 16000 lbs....

I am in Ontario, and need to stay within the Law..

I just cant figure out the weights, done allot of searchs and just get the "i pulled this much without a problem" posts.

I have a gooseneck ball in the bed, never used it, and a class 5, 2" reciever hitch. I am looking to buy a 20 foot tandem or tri axle if needed trailer..

I have weighed my truck, its at 3200kg with just me, add another guy, and some fuel, tools etc, I will be at 3500kg, or 7,700lbs.

I will be putting new tires on soon to match the GAWR, if I can find a good set, thinking of the Michelin XPS tractions.

So I can have as much as 400kg, or 1100lbs of toung weight to reach my GVWR. I have read the toung weight should be 20 to 25% of trailer weight. If thats the case, I can only pull a trailer weighing 4000 to 5000 lbs, or is my math very wrong???

I currently have my truck registered for 4400kg, at 4500kg I need a Commercial sticker and yearly safety. I just picked up a 6x12 tandem dump, its plated 14000lbs gvwr. So I will be going for an AR class drivers license and will need to upgrade the registration on my truck anyway..

Any help would be appreciated, My other option is a used 1986 FLD straight truck with a 20 foot flat deck, I can just drive it with my current DZ, I can get it on the road for under $4000, pluss insurance and liscence, and then have another vehicle to maintain etc. So not what I whant to do, but will if I have to. Pluss I am sure the Fl only gets around 8mpg, I get 16mpg pulling the dump loaded around 80km/h in my truck..

Thanks again..

GAmes

Don't rely on strangers, especially since most of us live in the U.S., to give you advice on laws, anywhere. You need to go to the appropriate authorities in Canada to see what you need. Also, switching back and forth between kilos and pounds definitely confuses everyone. FWIW, 16,000 lbs should be well within the capabilities if your truck.

dodgeguy71

I have some real good info on the dodge trucks as far as axle ratings, gvwr ratings and so on with the different engines, cabs and so forth. It helped me out. I think our trucks are only rated at 9000lbs for the truck itself. Seems like my configuration for my truck allowed me up to 20,000lbs combined as long as I didn't go over my limit for my truck and axles.

I agree with GAmes though, check with your local motor vehicle folks and I'll try and remember to look for that stuff in the morning, it may actually be in my truck. If I can find it, remember it and scan it...I'll send it to ya.

RickG

16,000 lbs. is the towing limit for a 3500 dually with a GVWR of 23,000 . That includes the trailer and the load . If Canada goes by factory gvwr you'd be considerably over .

Utundra

FWIW...Below is from the '07 Body Builder Manual in the 2500 Quad Cab Section: (It is a copy and past from the file downloaded here, http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/ )

RAM QUAD CAB 4WD LONG BED SLT DH 7H42
Engine Trans: 5.9L 24V TDHO (ETH)
Type Transmission: M6 POSG56 6 sp MANU (DEG)
Axle Ratio: 3.73
GVWR: 9,000
Payload: 1920
Base Weight: 7076
Base Wt. Front: 4375
Base Wt. Rear: 2701
GAWR Front: 5200
GAWR Rear: 6010
GCWR: 20,000
Max Trail: 12,850

GAmes

If Dodge's (or Ford's or GM's) ratings were anywhere near accurate in regards to capabilities, there would not be many hotshotters or carhaulers working with pick-ups. The question is if the truck is capable for his proposed venture and I am sure it is. The legality of registration for those loads and so forth is what he needs to check with the proper authorities.

RickG

Fireram knows the truck is "capable" . He is wisely trying to be legal and avoid liability . An attorney for another party involved in an accident would easily prove him grossly negligent pulling this load with this truck .

Busboy

I just had made a 20 foot goose made from rectangular tubing and wood deck with 2 7000lb axles with 8000lb springs, weighs in at 3470lbs. I don't think it could have been built much lighter. That did include 9 foot ramps so you could take off maybe 300lbs. That 3000 plus pounds also adds to your GCTW.

GAmes

It's nice we agree an the legal aspect, which I pointed out in post #2. I'm not sure his load would be any greater than the ones the hotshots in the U.S. pull. Many of them far exceed the manufacturer's GVWR and GCWR yet are legal gecause they are registered for those weight. I've also read the great internet rumor, on many different forums, that pulling loads in excess of a trucks GCWR would be a civil attorney's delight. I've also seen plenty of challenges to prove that it is the case. No one has provided one yet. Do you have a link to ONE court case where the operator was found negligent by exceeding the manufacturer's GVWR or GCWR of a light duty pick-up? If there is one, it would be the guy who crossed the median near Tacoma and killed a few people. He was illegally driving in the inside lane, too fast for conditions. He was not ticketed for being over any weight ratings, although it was obvious that his RV was way too big for his pick-up. I would like to know how the civil trial went. Here's another fly in the ointment. Pickups are registered as passenger vehicles in Oregon so there is no weight rating of any kind on the registration. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other states that are similar. I sure as heck don't know about Canada, but I have read that just like the U.S., each province has their own laws so registering over GVWR in B.C. may be OK but not in Ontario.

rich

dont believe i would haul that in a 2500

jamiec

I live in Ontario and opperate a dump trailer. The MTO will not be to concerned with your power unit, if it is registered for the weight of your truck and trailer loaded. In this I mean the max that the trailer can carry loaded combined with your truck.

My truck is reg, for 11000 kg's. As a commercial vehicle you will have to have to have all saftey equipment and pre trip forms and depending on your starting point and finishing point mileage, a log book.

I regularly gross out at 23000 lbs.

Jamie

fireram

Thanks, i will be heading to the MTO office to get the Ar license and will get the specifics from them, The Ar just started this spring, it prohibits guys from getting a full Class A using a pickup and trailer for the driving test,. If you use that for the test, you get an R added to the A, and can not drive trailers with air,. or trains i.e.. two trailers on one rig...

I have my truck reg,. for 4400-kg, as the minimum they give pickup owners is somewhere around 3000-kg. When I first got my truck, I pulled into a scale on the QEW, just to see what it weighed,. when I went in, They were discussing the minimum fine for overweight truck was a round of Tims and dozen doughnuts,.,,,, Then proceeded to inform me I was overweight. They pulled my plate info, and new I only had whatever the minimum weight was, and that I was over by around 300-kg, with just me and half tank fuel.... I was puzzled, and was told it was not a big deal, until I was stopped for having a load of something, or pulling a trailer to the dump, or ??? Then it would be up to the officer stopping me to decide if he wanted to charge me or not,,,

So I went to the office and upped the registration to the max, without needing a yearly safety,

I now own a 6x12 tandem 6 ton dump... Only paid 3500, the tires still have nubbies on it... But I can not legally pull it with my DZ because the trailers GVWR is over 4500-kg.. SO off to get an A.

I will post my findings from the MTO.

Thanks again for your info..

CTD NUT

Towing anything over 10350 lbs or 4600 kg in On. requires a restricted A if the truck and trailer are not air brake equipped, as you already know. I am kind of in the same boat as you right now. I am building a 32' 5ver camper with a flat deck for my jeep. Soon, I will have to get that A-R like you because the trailer axle weight will be slightly over 4600 kg. What concerns me about the licence is the wording for the tandem trailers. I was always under the impression that tandem implied two trailers of the same size. From time to time, I want to pull a sled trailer with a couple of ATV's which will probably only be around 800kg behind the 5ver but the wording of the A-R could be construed in such a way that I couldn't do that. What would be the difference in wording between towing this combo of two trailers or "tandems" or "doubles" I wonder. I don't want to be at the mercy of the interpretation of the law by an uneducated MTO officer. Your thoughts on this?

As for your annual safety inspection sticker, unfortunately, you will have to have one for your Dodge to be legit. Your registered truck weight will have to include the gross weight of the trailer. At that point, no matter how you slice it, your truck and trailer will both be subject to the annual safety inspection sticker since you will be over 4500 kg. If the "towed" (trailer) vehicle is over 4600 kg (not 4500 kg like you stated), you will require the A-R. My advice to you would be to re-register the dump trailer gross weight to 4600 kg (10350 lbs) to avoid the A-R requirement. It will put you a little under capacity on the trailer but that is still a decent load.

fireram

So I will need to have an annual inspection on the truck and trailer?

When I liscened the trailer, there was no mention of registered weight. I only paid the tax, and for a new plate. She did not ask the GVWR of the trailer, wich is 14000 lbs... there is no weight listed on the registration.

So can I register it for less?? and pay only for the weight i can legally pull?

from the MTO site:

Effective June 16, 2008:

* Class A licence applicants will receive a Class A licence based on the vehicle configuration they bring for the road test. Drivers who take their Class A road test using a smaller vehicle will be restricted to driving vehicles of similar size, and they will be prohibited from driving full size tractor-trailers.

* The new restrictive licence condition "R" will be applied to all licence applicants who pass a Class A road test using a small vehicle configuration. Drivers with a restricted Class A licence condition will be prevented from operating:
o a motor vehicle pulling double trailers
o a motor vehicle pulling a trailer with air-brakes.

* Drivers with the "R" restrictive condition will not be allowed to provide driver instruction to another person on a vehicle requiring full Class A privileges.

* Ontario drivers returning from another jurisdiction will be issued a Class A licence with the same "R" restrictive condition as when they left.

* A new offence has been introduced for vehicle owners who permit a person to operate a motor vehicle in contravention of a licence condition.


SO: from the first paragraph,. You will get a liscence based on the vehicle you bring to the test.

From the next paragraph,. you cant pull double trailers with a AR...

SO just take the double trailers to your road test, and you should get the liscence you need to pull that equipment...

No mention of weight of the trailer, can I take two 2300kg trailers and be under??

I think they missed that one, and I am sure it is not the intention of the new class. I think the new class is to prevent guys from driving tractors that have not been tested in one.. You are driving a big length vehicle when you pull two trailers, so that makes you a class A no matter the weight. Just make sure you have someone with a full A take you and your vehicles to the test...

The last *, basically if you lend your trailer to someone who has a truck to pull it and does not have the proper liscence, you get fined.. Nice....

CTD NUT

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