So you is useing water/methanol injection? Was just watching Two Guys Garage. They just installed a TST powermax. Dave on the show installed this water/methanol injection. He did not say much about it. Did a search on sounds like a good way to gain more power.

 

Wannadiesel has lots of info on it, and pics too.

 

Water/Meth injection is great, if you gotta inject something that's the way to go hands down. You get a nice increase in power and the egt's climb way slower at wot. If you tow, you can build boost until the injection starts then yous boost will climb 4-5 lbs and you can back off the trottle a little bit and let the h2o/meth do it's job as you climb a hill.

 

Did I hear my name?

Water/meth made 43 HP and 86 ft# on my truck while lowering the EGT at least 200 degrees. The 1600 degree pyro was pegged on the #2 only run, on the water/meth run it only hit 1400 degrees.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

 

OK. How about the following questions:

Timing - how does water/meth work with timing boxes? Has the -effect- of adding timing, doesn't it?

HO engines with timing boxes - too much when water/meth is added?

Effects on head gaskets because of cylinder pressure? Especially with the HO?

Any other durability issues? Oil contamination from cylinder washdown, etc?

Towing - how much water/meth do you go through? Is a ten gallon tank in the bed good enough for a highway run in the Rockies, do you think? Would you need an auxilliary pump to get the fluid to engine compartment pump?

Sincere thanks for any input.

 

Timing/head gasket- I have not heard of anybody losing a head gasket (or anything else for that matter) on a CTD with 50/50 or below. Meth heavy mixes can cause a pressure spike when the meth lights, I would not recommend 50/50 for a towing application. Straight water or 20% meth has the effect of retarding timing, the cooler temps caused by the water flashing to steam delay combustion. Timing boxes freak me out on towing applications anyway, on an HO it's worse. Straight water or a light meth mix would actually help. What you have to watch out for is excessive boost. The water/meth will cause a 3-10 psi jump in boost pressure, if you are pushing 40 psi already (I don't know, just a "ferinstance") and have no wastegate, that jump in boost might be all it takes to pop the gasket. My truck would jump 10 psi on 50/50 with a non-wastegated 16 cm housing.

There should be no durability issues as long as the 5 minute rule is followed: Run (not idling) the truck for 5 minutes after using the water/meth. This ensures that any puddles boil out of the manifold/head. Oil contamination would not concern me as long as the truck is not excessively short-tripped. Water and methanol will both boil out of the oil pretty quickly at operating temp. I changed my oil yesterday and sent a sample for analysis, I'll post when I get the report. I purposely used the system a lot on the way home before the change, but I shut it off 5 minutes away. I'll let you know what they find in there.

I can go through a quart of 50/50 in a minute. A 10 gallon tank in the bed ought to be fine, especially if the system is tuned for straight water. You can't pump near that much straight water through the motor without bogging it. Guys with the tank in the bed mount the pump under the bed so it pushes instead of pulling.

 

Dave, I too have seen lower EGT's but I still get high peaks before the EGT's drop back! Are you saying you do not expirience this on your truck?


RJ

 

mrschendel and Gear Poet:

I have a water injection system on my 1996 Dodge CTD. Like "wannadiesel" I too have seen a major reduction in my EGT's. Before the water and the install of an external exhaust wastegate for my twin turbo system, I could easily see 1600-1800 degrees. With the addition of the wastegate and water injection I can now keep those EGT's to a max of about 1450-1500 degrees under WOT conditions. Like "rjohnson" though, I will see a higher "peak" intially before the EGT's start to drop back.

Unlike "wannadiesel" and maybe Jim Fulmer, I have not seen ANY increase in H.P. or torque on either a Dynojet 248C or a Mustang Dyno. I even tried a 20% mixture of methanol and saw no difference! I am running very high timing on my truck (above 20 ) so I want to be somewhat careful about what I am doing. In speaking with Matt Snow and others, I have been told that if you are starting with higher than 16 degrees BTDC, the more advanced injection timing can result in a "diesel knock" which puts alot of strain on many of the internal engine parts! Also unlike "wannadiesel", I have seen water mixed with oil come out of my crankcase vent tubes (I have two of them ) after very hard runs where I use the water injection. This is even after the "5 minute rule" that "wannadiesel" describes. Due to the amount of fuel and air I am running, I am using two nozzles and I go through a GM Winshield Washer Tank in about one quarter mile run! I am planning on installing a larger water tank in the bed of my truck soon. I will be interested to see how the oil analysis comes back on "wannadiesels'" truck.

For those of you that are planning on installing a water injection system on the newer 2003-2005 Dodge CTD CR Trucks, you are in a much better position on those as the engines have a more "retartded" engine timing than I have with my 12 valve.

I will continue to use my water injection system for the great benefit of EGT reduction!

Hope this has helped some.

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John_P

 

Good info from a more extreme use of it, I think John_P. Isn't a GM washer tank about a gallon???

I might have to try one of these systems in the future...I don't know how much fuel I can add from what I have now

Chris

 

John, Just for clarification...and for the information of those considering the Snow's Kit....you must be running much larger nozzles than stock?

I use two 625's jets, starting injection at 20 psi, and can get about 4-5 1/4 mile passes out of the Washer bottle (one Gal.).

I too have an oil, analysis coming back shortly....but mine have never shown any water in the fuel.

RJ

 

signature600:

Yes, I think you are right, the plastic GM Windshield Washer Tank holds a little over one gallon of fluid.

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rjohnson:

Yes, my jets are somewhat larger than the 625's. I look forward to seeing the results of your oil analysis also. Please let us know how it looks.

--------
John_P

 

John P- Sounds like you are running a lot more water through the motor than I am. This winter I did see some "baby crap" at the top of the dipstick (none inside the oil cap, though), which is what prompted me to drive the truck for 5 minutes after use rather than just set the cooldown timer and hop out. I haven't seen the baby crap since.

Maybe you are blowing too much water through and hurting combustion efficiency very badly and that's why you don't see a power increase? No matter, though - the water is doing its job by keeping the pistons in solid form.

The pressure on my pump is set 1/2 turn back from where the engine bogs when the water/meth kicks in. I am running a pair of 625's as well.

RJ- I have not noticed an EGT spike. I have no opportunites to test the system at a steady load, since I don't tow and I don't have any grades long and steep enough to load the engine that hard. All my experience comes from acceleration runs. Hard to notice a spike when EGT is climbing steadily. All I can vouch for is that it goes faster and does not get as hot with the water/meth.

 

wannadiesel:

Thanks for your input!

You are the second person that has told me that maybe I am running too much water and I plan to cut the jets back somewhat to see if that will help. However, as you pointed out " the water is doing it's job by keeping the pistons in solid form!" Early on, I had tried just one (1) 625 nozzle and on my truck it wasn't enough. With the two jets and larger holes it has worked out alot better as far as the EGT's go and I don't feel that "bog" that some have, so
I figured I was "in the ball park" with respect to the nozzles and jets. In fact, under WOT I you cannot feel anything "seat of the pants" with respect to the water coming on. The only way to tell the water is actually on is to keep your eye on the pyrometer and watch the temps drop as water goes in. I need to do more testing and as it progresses I will keep you guys posted. I am happy to have seen that sharp reduction in the EGT's with the water though!
That is the main reason I put the system in and in that respect I am very happy with it!

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John_P

 

If you've never felt it bog, you may not be running enough water. I talked to Jim Fulmer about water/meth before I got it, and the way he told me to tune it was to crank up the pump pressure until you feel the motor bog when system kicks in, then back off until it dosn't bog anymore. It seems like it's best to run as much as the engine will tolerate. I believe it's good advice because I was told by the people who run the dyno that my truck was the first they'd seen gain power with water/meth. Last I heard Jim was running three 625's - 2 in the hat and one at the intercooler outlet.

 

Its been awhile since ive posted here on this forum, just wanted to ask a few questions about your methanol/water kits.
I have a few 1987 3.8 turbocharged buick regals that im running a 100psi pump to inject meth into my engines to supress detonation. Its fairly common to do on these cars to gain 75 horsepower.

My questions are the following....

what pump pressure are you guys using?
what orifice size are you using to inject the meth into the hat?

i have a few different setups on my cars, some have nitrous jets to regulate flow into the motor, some have m10 or m15 Hago nozzles to regulate flow. The orifice sizes vary between .026 and .060 depending on how much timing and boost i run.

Any ill effect on a HO 6speed running 50/50 meth and water not towing?

Im just needing about an additional 50 HP on my 2002 HO. It has a D-box 275s 4 inch exhaust.
I want to build my own kit for my 2002, just need to know a few perticulars first.

thanks for any help
BW