John_P

Bart:

I guess I am pushing alot more fuel than you are as
the two (2) 625ml water nozzles don't even faze my
12V Scheid Twin Turbo Engine! The second nozzle
cools the temps another 100-150 degrees on my truck.
Also, as I posted above, the methanol can cause some
problems in "high doses" in the 12V engines with real
high timing. I believe that Snow Performance would
confirm this.

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John_P

Bart Timothy

I guess what I'm trying to say is you can inject a lot more water for more cooling when methanol is added. All I ever saw with straight water was an EGT reduction, which was improved when washer fluid was added because more water could be used. When I tried water I was bringing it in at only 15lbs boost, which is too low, even at Snow's 50% duty cycle setting.

The new yellow colored -30* stuff at Walmart is only $1.47/gal and contains 40% methanol. It does a good job.

As for a power increase, I never saw any with straight water. When running the water/meth mixture there is never a "seat of the pants kick" in power or any thing like that, but you can tell its there. What happens is when the water/meth hits you can see the boost guage jump a couple of pounds with no immediate EGT decrease, and if you are pulling a long uphill grade, you can ease back out of the throttle and still maintain the same speed. When you back out of the throttle the EGTs will start dropping. How the system works is different from what I initially expected.

ridofpwrstroke

I tried the website but it will not load up. How does this system work? I want to bump up to 150hp injectors instead of my dd2's and am not sure on what turbo to use. I am very curious.

dodgeram

okay I've got a pretty low powered truck, just a drag comp and 275's

but they run my egt's on my stock hx35 way high under WOT (I'm gonna fix the overboost problem(40lbs) with an adjustable elbow from piers, it's in the mail)

would this water injection help keep my egt's in check even at my low power level, cause I'd sure like to keep my stock turbo .......I hate turbo lag and I doubt anything's gonna spool as fast or faster than my 12cm hx35

and am I understanding right you can just use windshiled washing fluid in the injection tank ??

Jim Fulmer

On shooting straight water there is no problem with doing that if EGT reduction is what you want, I rarely use the system unless I'm running hard or want to test something.

On the HP gain you can tipically see a gain of 60-100 hp, I think the worse power gain is mine as I'm so overfueled, the best would be a big single or Twins with limited fuel.....lots of air and little fuel makes a 50/50 mix shine, with my old set of twins and running in valet I saw a 124 hp gain on the dyno.

On the headgasket question, a 12V with lots of timing, water/meth and or boost might be an issue with the headgasket, but if your going to run like this your truck needs to be setup for it. To date I have had no issues with this running 20+ timing, O-Ring and studs.

Jim

RowJ

Can you add any light to the original questions..
1-Will H2O alone increase Boost/HP?
2-Correct to assume using H2O/Meth will increase boost with the increase in HP?
3-Do the Lower EGt's somehow contain boost increase... by preventing super heated air?...and/or perhaps expand the MAP of a given turbo by cooling the air and allowing more useful boost?

This last one has my head spinning. Just have to try it and see. Would welcome your expirience.

Dodgeram - Yes...WIndshield Washer Fluid labeled "contains Methanol" works great, and can be plumbed from washer fluid bottle. This way you even have a low fluid level warning light!. FYI...some B-1's (I know) and the HTT HTB2 (I've heard) will spool as fast as HX-35!

RJ

Jim Fulmer

1. Water alone should increase boost some but I'm not sure how much....can't be too much.

2. Water/Meth will increase boost some, I don't know how much over straight water......no need to test it as I never run straight water, I run regular .99 washer fluid.

3. The increase in boost should be from more power....more air out....same as bigger injectors.

Jim

RowJ

Thanks Jim. I'm at 50 psi boost on my B-1 with no wastegate and a little worried about anything higher...been told top edge of turbo map is around 46+/-. They're very secretive so it'd hard to get solid info. Can't "feel it" being too hot like I could with my HY-35. Will see what kind of boost I get with Snow's Kit.
RJ

Jim Fulmer

I'd call Ken and get a wastegate for the turbo, I do know he has them for at least some of the turbo's......Ken.....602-272-5311.

You should jump about 80 hp using a 50/50 mix with that much air!

Jim

RowJ

Initial testing has been a little disappointing. Tested with Straight H20, with 20% Methanol (1/2 H20 & 1/2 Washer Fluid), and 40% methanol.

Only tested Methanol with EZ unhooked...worried about excessive timing advance. Did test 100% H2O with EZ on. Tested all 3 mixtures with PM3 on 5 different settings...1,3,5,7,9. Differences were same on any of these settings...comparing w/ and w/o injection.

All testing done empty @7450 lb, on 4% up-grade at WOT, from 60 mph to 100+. My goal is lower EGT's at full throttle.

Settled into serious testing with 100% H2O and EZ hooked up.
To summarize: No noticable power increase -based on boost which stayed about the same; reduced EGT's 50* at each power (PM3) setting with H2O injection on...not the 200-300* I was told were available.

RJ

PS: Skip to end of thread (10/31) for final testing results - very different

RowJ

Tried to pm you...your box is full!

Jim Fulmer

It's not setup right......it does require a little tuning.

Wish I would have know this I could have meet you on I-35 when I was going home from Dallas Saturday.

Jim

RowJ

625 Nozzles...Stage 1 @ 25 psi, Stage 2 @ 40 psi....Pump set for 150 (2 full turns counterclockwise from full). Getting Low Fluid Level warning light in 6 runs...pump on for maybe 10-15 sec each time.

What would you do differently?
RJ

PS: Mis-spoke EGT reduction above...have corrected it...was 50* at most settings, not 25*

Jim Fulmer

Run the pump wide open, turn the screw in all the way but don't strip it, it works on a stock turbo'd truck at 430hp with a setup much like that and go back and make sure the screens are not plugged in the jets then do a test pump with the line off shooting out on the ground. The best way to set this up is cut the power wire to the pump right at the battery and add some slip on connectors so you can separate the power wire to short it to the battery, makes testing and emptying the tank easy.

Jim

Dockboy

rjohnson,

Jim is right, it takes a bit of tweaking to get it set up optimally

One thing I have found is if you have the full on pressure set to low, it will tend to inject too much, too quick due to the rapid boost increase when it first comes one

For example, my truck makes ~49 lbs max boost. I have the injection set to come on at 25 lbs. I get a quick 4-6 lbs. boost increase once the injection starts. If the full on is set at 40 lbs. or below, because of the initial sharp boost increase, it ends up injecting too much too quick!! Mine works much better is I have the full on set to around 50 lbs.

Also, I have found a greater cooling and HP effect if you mix your own with racing methanol. I get the best performance and cooling without concern of any damage with a 30-40% methanol to water mixture

Another tip If you want to get the most HP out of it for the dyno, strip, or pull, mix it in a container(I use 50/50 for these) that you can shake up, Then shake it and pour it in the tank just before you are ready!! If you don't do that and it has sat in the tank for a while, it will seperate and the methanol will be on top. You will only end up pulling close to straight water

Greg