AlpineRAM

HOHN- I think we've PMed already. I do have Mach3s and really like them. Very controllable smoke, EGTs stay in check if driving reasonably, and mileage has improved a bit over stock.
The most amazing improvement is the fun/gallon.
I feel that the Mach3s are very good injectors since I get just a small puff of black smoke at a cold start adn then everything clears up. The idle is very stable and ther is no lope even at very cold temperatures where all the other injectors I tried would be troublesome. I don't know about twins etc, but Mach3s, VGT turbo and a DTT tranny make an absolutely streetable truck that will be very abusive on the standard sportscars over here.

AlpineRAM

HOHN

I remember your PM, Markus. Thanks for the post.

Cold weather starting is important to me (we get below zero), so I can't get TOO crazy with the injectors.

The mach 3s make as much power as the Super Mentals, only with WAY less smoke. What more could you want??

Justin

HOHN

Anyone know which stage Don M injectors these were?

HOHN

I am going to start a new thread on budget twins setups so we can discuss that one.

Justin

Jim Fulmer

Like it has always been said, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Jim

Don M

Wow...those are some oldies. I have not built the 14's in at least 8 months. Actually they are still available, but with most guys going to the big ol huge singles and twin set-ups they are not the best option. I first posted that picture over a year ago. Time flies.

Jim, not sure what your comment meant? can you explain?

Don~

HOHN

Yes, Don-- I pulled that pic off on OLD post of yours "Multi-Hole Injectors." It's old, but STILL sweet!

How is it that you get better atomization with fewer holes? Like Tim remarked, he went UP in injector size and they have FEWER holes. It's counterintuitive, but I know there's a good reason you did it.

May I ask what improvements were made to the Mach 3s most recently? How did you make the "cleaner"?

What's the difference between an injector designed for an ETC and one designed for an ETH? Do they require different pop-off pressures or rates-of-discharge?

What's the areas your scrutinizing msot closely now in your quest to improve injectors?

Justin

Don M

I bet that picture is at least 1 year plus old.

I currently have 1 customer running a 14 hole injector. Everyone else has been upgraded to the newer style except one guy I cant find. I think he dropped off the face of the earth. The 14's are as good as it gets for low speed cruising and crushing, before boost, low end TQ with one turbo. But as the boost comes up past about 40-50 PSI, the efficiency begins to fall off some to the nozzles with less holes. Twins were much more rare back about 18 months ago. Most of the hole data I asked everyone to keep quiet about until we could get a good amount of customers out there first.

We began to notice everyone pushing boost up past 50 PSI using 14's actually had as much smoke as some of the slobbery honed injectors.

Looking over the current list of folks with our injectors shows 98 people with 8 holers. Its the best way to go for most applications. Another 15 have 7 holes. Some of the 12 valve guys have 8, some 5 and some 6. It all depends on what parameters they have.

Some 1st gens have a 7 hole. Some have 8. Some have 5. Some have 4.

Injection pressure, total air density ( not just from high boost numbers) and the use of the truck is largest factors determined in the sizing.

To answer the Mach 3 question: Its no big secret. The first generation of Mach 3 injectors were making too much power. They were cranking off 140-150HP. First thing we did was downsize the flow rate some and then incorporated the newer nozzle style we now use for all the 24 valves. Very clean compared to the stock Bosch honed yukkies.

Pop pressure is not a huge factor IMO. Within reason, it makes no real difference. I set them all the same now. 29.5-30 MPA.

All the R&D is now on the 3rd gen. I have some very sweet EDM nozzles almost ready for the common rail engines. The funny thing is....everyone else is saying that 100HP is the limit on good driveability and smooth running. Ooooppss I must have been absent the day the teacher taught that lesson. Of course honed out stock nozzles will only take you so far

Don~

pro puller

It is amazing but Don is 100% correct about the 14 hole injector being a little smokier than the 7 holer.I had a set of the earlier 14 hole injectors & they were a very smooth running nozzle but they did smoke alot with my B-1 & also with my twins.As far as power they were awesome with nitrous but they dont compare with my new mach 5 7 holers these things make big power & torque with alot less smoke than the 14 holers did.Keep up the good work Don.

Kurt

HOHN

Any theories as to why the 14-holers choke at high boost? I suspect that the holes end up being too small trying to move that fuel into such high cylinder pressure.

Can't have your cake and eat it too...

J.R. Adkins

Don is right about the 14 holers. They dont have enough UMPH to get into the bowl at high boost levels.

Don I have been hearing some good things about your injectors. Looks like all your hard work is paying off.

Battering Ram

To make a very looooonnnnggg story short... my 14 holers had the stupidest bottom end imaginable. I mean the torque was unreal.... but with less holes at a better spray angle the atomization and horsepower is awsome at the higher bost levels at upper rpm's. I will have a bunch more info later but for now thats all I have.

Horace

Don M

thanks JR. I hear the same about your turbos!!!

More Power

If anybody is going bigger i would love to buy a used set of edm's 2's or 3's still saving money for new ones.

HOHN

So what difference could I expect upgrading to a Mach 3 from DD2s? Rest of the fuel is stock (well, an EZ isn't much).

There are PSD guys talking trash, and I am going to need a little more fuel

Justin