CTD NUT

None of the 2nd gens that I have seen are 32 spline and have not heard of anyone else confirm this. Mine and the other 2nd gen 70's I have had apart were all 1 1/2" 35 spline shafts.

I have also seen earlier Dodge 70 rears that were 35's too but I can't confirm the exact years. Everyone with a 1st gen CTD seems to confirm that their 70 rears are all 1.33" 32 spline, though.

Mcmopar

So the second gen's are 35 spline? Do you know where I can confirm this? I would like to pick up a second power lok and need to know the spline count before I buy.

Thanks

CTD NUT

Pop your center cap off, undo the bolts and yank the shaft out.
Should take all of 5 minutes and it will be the best way to confirm for yourself that you will be getting the correct carrier.

Mcmopar

Yea, the only fool proof way, but I feel lazy today

amartinson

Check THIS page.

It says all 94-01 trucks with the V10 or Diesel have 35 spline.

ddestruel

Dana spicer no longer makes a D80 power Lok the bolt together trac lok is the replacement that will come. and it is a POS

According to Dana spicer the Plok was phased out in 97-99 and that all replacements are to be T-Loks which thier engineers claim to be a better design. i think the only good thing about it is that it is cheaper to build and makes a good boat anchor.



You correct about the spiders camming up against to provide more clutch load.

If an individual desires a Power-Lok for a Dana 80 order up a D70HD powerlok with ABS gear notch for either the 4 series gear sets or 3 series gear sets then redrill the ring gear bolt holes. as to cost any more the power lok can be had for about 400-450 new call randys R&P.

It does not matter what vehicle the carrier is for Ford dodge chevy, they are all dana spicer and will work. The parts costs are nearly the same between the two diffs. as to the Plok the parts, internals in the D60, D70 and D80 Ploks are ALL the same.

To describe it simply:

When ordering a Plok clutch kit order the HD kit a standard kit comes with two internal curved disks and 2 flat internal disk then 6 outer disks. Outer disks have ears the inners are thicker and splined to engage the sidegear. Older Ploks used both curved inner and outer clutches in the kits, replacements only curver the inner disks. when stacking disks it is arranged = (case) then (O-I-O-I-O) then (sidegear and cup) then spiders and cross shafts. ect.

If the Plok is used in a front application there is a pin in the cross shafts that should be removed to allow them to float. in a rear full float application use the pin to lock the crosses together.

All D70's and D80's used by dodge post 93 are supposed to be 35 spline axles. the 37 spline D80 version uses a different spindle and hub assembly than what dodge uses and the 32 spline D70 hasnt been used in a rear application for awhile from what my research has shown but i have been finding conflicting sources of data.



Before splitting a Plok housing Mark a section on each case half to make sure that they fit back together in exactly the same spot, they are machined a specific way and have been known to chip away if they are inproperly matched



If you want to make it tight it is easy by adding more curves and eliminating flat disks or if you really want to put some pressure on things you can drop an extra disk in or two before bolting it back together. Also i have taken new outer disks and pressed a preload into them. you can also reuse old disks so if you find an outer disk that was manufactured with a curve in it use it in place of a flat outer when restacking your disks so long as it isnt gouged or cut just surface scuffed it will work just fine. The Plok does benefit from the additional preload, it decreases ramping time from one wheel spin to both. In my last Plok i ran 7 curved clutches and 3 flats.

It recently roached a set of spider gears, i can't imagine why. Could have been abused or anything. As to a Detroit, I wouldnt take another one of those POS if you paid me i have broken two both in less than 10k miles each and both while pulling or hooking on to a 24k lbs + GN trailers. Both ratcheted while turning and Kapow.

If the carrier is out of a Gen 1 with the 32 spline side gears that is not a problem, call up Inland truck of missoula Mt or anywhere and order up a set of 35 spline 1 piece side gears and Cups if yours has 2 piece cups and side gears otherwise if you have 1 piece cups then the 35 spline side gear will be all you need. but the case may not be cut for an ABS gear which is what you need in a Gen2 to run the speedo.

Go for it. PM if you have any questions and oh yeah i should still be subscribed to several of those threads since i wrote pretty lengthy responses concerning stacking and preloading clutches

DRM

Yup - sometimes you have to get off the internet and just pull the parts and see for yourself

CTD NUT

Detoits are a POS? I must say I have never come across a stronger locker. Were you using a true full carrier unit? I have seen them blow up - but rarely. I have not come across a locker that is stronger. I have seen full floating 35 spline 4340 shafts grenade and the detriot was still intact. This took an enormous amount of torque. I think the rig was running in 100:1 gear range.

So.......IYO, what would be a stronger carrier (other than a spool)?

ddestruel

A "Detroit Locker" only comes as a full case option on large Dana spicer axles.

It is Definately a strong unit but i still do not like them, if you noticed i noted exactly in both cases what situation caused the detroit to strip out and grenade. When a detroit ratchets while turning it is at its weakest point, when it ratchets and locks with a heavily loaded Gooseneck pushing down on the pin of you truck the axleshafts are taking the brunt of it. Therefor the cogs on detroit are the culprits when it does let loose.
Axleshafts tend to break like you said under torque, wheel spin ect comes to mind, i too have seen 35 spline axle shafts break or in my case twist the splines but in my rear application the shock of ratcheting while loaded as heavy as i run i believe to be the culprit of my breaks the clutches absorb while the detroit is either locked or ratcheting and releasing. since dont have a habit of trying to spin my tires under that kind of a load



There isnt one single carrier that works better than all others, if there was i would love to run it. An Arb has its flaws with failing O-rings and blowing out seals especially on vehicles that gather alot of miles this is a nucence.

The Detroit, well you already know my opinion on it i will also add that i have 5 total grenaded detroits between 2 1-D30 1-D44 and accompanying broken axle shafts axle brakes detroit ussually lets loose in the next moth or so, 1 front D60 detroit (which was a bad casting was recalled after the break) and two D80 Detroits both that i described. They are not all that bad but with both my jeep and the old tow rig i found that they have increased my driveline issues and also been an irritation. Try changing out both of those D80 detroits in eastern Montana in the Winter that will always leave you with a bitter taste.

I have also noticed with oilfield rigs that have detroits that thier service records typically indicate R&P gear failure (cracks) at 80-120k miles consistantly over all other LSD or open rigs in the field doing the same services which ussually would need a R&P between 250-300k miles with proper service. Food for thought since I used to review my service records and those of several oilfield construction companies and the FS analyzing repairs and premature/abnormal equiptment failures and many of my conclusions are not based on hearsay or popular opinion more so off factual operating situations and experiences





I have had good luck, not problem free but good luck with the Power Lok. I have over 300,000 miles on the p loks rear and 200k on the front in my old bombed CTD tow rig. At 337k the D80 Power Lok shelled out the spider gears. They both front and rear have the same 300k mile gearsets in them and they both needed clutches between 50-100k miles depending on what i was doing that year. Is it the perfect setup NO, did it reduce the number of joint failures and other premature driveline failures when i changed from detroits back to a LSDs Yes. Is it for everone No. Did i work them hard yes and often, did they break or not work flawlessly yes and when the didnt it was irritating luckily so long as you could hold the break pedal and throttle they ussually would ramp up and engage and go.









I will tell you that two years ago on this hill pulling a different trailer is where the front D60 Detroit let loose. I believe that the ratcheting under power is thier weakness and that the preloaded clutches and smooth actuation of the Powerlok aids in the reduction of drivetrain premature part failure including thier ability to not strip out.

Also let me add that a trac Lok is a POS and typically showed no benefits nor proper service after 50k miles of hard use, and Auburn sucks ballbearings too.

The eletric locks sound interesting but i like to believe in the policy of KISS, plus they dont have a reputation yet and im not going to be the guinee pig.

Spool yeah if you dont mine changing your tires often.

PLOK over Detroit yes in my book its a good compromise for my highway/ offroad application. In a light rig or non-towing application i wouldnt see a problem. and sled pulling possibly but if he is highway driving the manners of a detroit are not as highway friendly not towing friendly. In a jeep i still hated the ratcheting while in tight spots that loves to shift a rear end to the side or off a rock, so i have since ditched my Detroits this year and when i can afford it i will be going to a selectable Locker up front and probably keep the Plok rear good enough and with good manners.

MHPO

CTD NUT

Hmm......interesting experience with the detroits. I do love power loks. The one in my CTD has 300,000 km and still works great and I would never consider running anything else but..........it would be useless in my Jeep - they just don't seem to hold very well for my application. I agree that a detroit is hard on a driveline but for me the rest of the driveline is matched well. Will I break a driveline part?..........oh probaly - I don't think you can ever completely have a bomb proof driveline for off roading - but I'm trying. I'm not a huge fan of ARB's either, but it is the only locker I will put in the front of my Jeep. Not quite as strong as a detroit but so far seems to be the strongest selectable locker I have seen.

How 'bout that 401 you have? I used to have one after running a few 304's. I loved the one I had. Had a set of small cc 390 heads from a Javelin that were awesome with a silly cam and some TRW pop up slugs - was good for an easy 10:1. And oh my, what a rocket! I used Crane parts to convert over to some good rocker arms (with some machining of the head to fit them).

I failed to put good enough valve keepers and retainers in and it sucked a valve at about 5500rpm - oops, that was the end of that
I didn't rebuild it and Cheved it instead. It was a case of can't beat 'em - join 'em. Just too many Chev's making too much power for too little money. But I had alot of fun with that 401!

ddestruel

LOL-

I should have gone 454 or 396 too but instead i built the 401 just for the sake of proving people wrong when they say that amc's are boat anchors.

hard to beat the idling and low end on a 401. I too have the TRW pop up pistons but because of some really screwed up machine shop in sacramento that took 3 trys and 4 months and still doesnt have my heads right (and because i dont trust thier work now) i went with the edelbrock aluminium heads which were not much more than the machine work on the old castys. in the 10:1 ball park also with a healthy howards cam .479 222@ .050 292 total on 114 lobe center idles nice comes alive hard. Also sprung for a little AMC Edelbrock mult port EFI (Group buy on heads and EFI made it really reasonable) counting the days till i get to put that on. OD and 4.88's make life nice on the highway to and from the trail. Looking at swapping my CJ7 tub and frame for a CJ8 tub and frame. $500 upgrade and a little elbow grease and a little primer and paint again, im thinking its a worthy upgrade.

You are right I tend to have to fight my Ploks as they get loose from time to time but for this wheeling season they got me through the 'con and fordyce well enough Next year will be different. I'll be looking to be a push button.

How about yours, seems like you are pretty well setup.

DRM

(raises hand) ARB owner since 1996 - one seal failure, and that was due to installer error

CTD NUT

Yup, I have been an owner of a couple ARB's since 97 too with good results but only because I have never put one in the rear. I have seen several grenade in rear end applications in just my 4X4 club alone - but only one failure in the front that I can remember. They have demonstrated to me over and over that they are not as strong by design as a detroit. I know that they did come out with some much stronger carriers for some applications that are a big improvement over earlier designs.
From what I can see there is a big difference in strength just between applications. I know that the case on my 60 ARB has 8 larger bolts with much more material around them that held carrier together as compared to the 44 ARB I had which only had 4 smaller bolts with much less material in the same areas. Not to mention the internals are enormous on the 60 compared to the 44 - it is quite obvious that the 60 ARB will put up with way more abuse than the 44 ARB.

DRM

I ran a Toyota 8" ARB in the rear from 96-99 on a daily driver/weekend wheeler then moved it to the front from 99-01. I now have an ARB in the 60 front of my 4Runner, and expect a looooong life out of it.

CTD NUT

Yup, I think your D60 ARB will last a long time in the front of your 'yota - got a D60 ARB in the front of my Jeep too. The only thing I wonder about is how much longer I am going to get away with using the stock stub shafts. Seems like someone in the club is smokin' one eveytime they go out this summer