Twins Vs Single
10-13-2006, 07:41 AM
#16
Registered User
Oh, you're talking about BUYING a head with good stuff already in it. I thought you meant getting the existing head rebuilt would cost that, and I was having trouble imagining that. No, the 12v motors don't have that problem. Mine is at 270k and is exhibiting no signs of anything like that-plenty go MUCH MUCH farther than mine has. I keep tearing up drivetrain stuff in mine-it's the transmission at the moment.
Anyway, I think if I were him, I'd get my head rebuilt with those parts at a local machine shop before I'd pay almost $2k.
Anyway, I think if I were him, I'd get my head rebuilt with those parts at a local machine shop before I'd pay almost $2k.
10-13-2006, 07:44 AM
#17
Registered User
Go with a smalller charger...that 62/12 will spool OK, but it won't be what I would call Towing twins, unless you have 4.10's and don't mind a little lag.
I would say a 62/12 and B2 combo would light around 1800 (which isn't bad, and I have towed 30K with my 40/B2, but I have a stick
)
If you're really looking for a towing setup...go with a HTBG, Super B, or something that size, and put a B2 under it if you don't tow too often or heavy. If you want super fast spool, go with a GT4294 (71mm wheel) or a K31! The GT42 has a few different housing options, down to 1.01...wastegating the big charger will be nescessary if you use one of these!
Make sense??
Chris
I would say a 62/12 and B2 combo would light around 1800 (which isn't bad, and I have towed 30K with my 40/B2, but I have a stick
)If you're really looking for a towing setup...go with a HTBG, Super B, or something that size, and put a B2 under it if you don't tow too often or heavy. If you want super fast spool, go with a GT4294 (71mm wheel) or a K31! The GT42 has a few different housing options, down to 1.01...wastegating the big charger will be nescessary if you use one of these!
Make sense??
Chris
I don't really know what those other turbos you mentioned are.
10-13-2006, 07:50 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as I know, the 12cm is as small as you can go! A smaller housing on the big charger will help, but it will choke the top end! A smaller primary will also help, but they will also choke on the top end....what you need to decide, is where you want the airflow. 2000RPM or 3000RPM.
Those other turbos I mentioned, like the GT42 is a Garrett built charger that has a few more options that off the shelf S400's that peaople sell. Just as tough, and move just as much air. The K31 is a modified S400 with a 1.28A/R wastegated housing, and a 71mm wheel! Works VERY well for a towing primary, and the wastegat allows you to run a little better on the top end without going to a bigger charger!
Chris
Those other turbos I mentioned, like the GT42 is a Garrett built charger that has a few more options that off the shelf S400's that peaople sell. Just as tough, and move just as much air. The K31 is a modified S400 with a 1.28A/R wastegated housing, and a 71mm wheel! Works VERY well for a towing primary, and the wastegat allows you to run a little better on the top end without going to a bigger charger!
Chris
10-13-2006, 08:04 AM
#19
Registered User
Well going down the highway, I don't really go higher than 2100 rpm unless I have to drop out of OD, or really want to speed.
Even empty, I very rarely go above 2600.
Even empty, I very rarely go above 2600.
10-13-2006, 09:16 AM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What are your power goals....I mean, if you're shooting for 450, and towing you need twins. But if you have a max of 450, turn the box down and a single should tow fine!
I've pulled 30K with 325hp and a single did a fine job...actually it did better than twins at 400hp. But comparing a 12v and a 24v is like comparing apples and bowling *****...they're both round, but that's about it
Chris
I've pulled 30K with 325hp and a single did a fine job...actually it did better than twins at 400hp. But comparing a 12v and a 24v is like comparing apples and bowling *****...they're both round, but that's about it
Chris
10-13-2006, 09:29 AM
#21
Registered User
Ok. I see your point, I don't have s HP goal, but I do want to tow easily, without over heating the pyro or engine.
I will try the single first, then go from there.
Thanks,
I will try the single first, then go from there.
Thanks,
10-13-2006, 09:34 AM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like a plan. If a single will do the job, why go with all the extra parts of a twinset. Keep it as simple as your BOMBs will allow!
Kind of a "Do as I say, not as I do" thing too
Chris
Kind of a "Do as I say, not as I do" thing too
Chris
10-13-2006, 09:46 AM
#23
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
$1250 for all 24 valves to get new seats and guides, fluxed and checked for cracks, decked to be sure its flat and o-rings cut and installed.
this was on a head with 80k and the guides were about trashed. def a good idea to do it all at once
10-13-2006, 02:09 PM
#25
Registered User
I have tried a few setups and IMO if you want to tow and are only going to play a little and are around 500hp then a 35/14 on top of a 3b, k31, or b2 is the way to go. If you want to play a lot then a 40 or 300 varient on top of a 3b or b2 is the way to go. I've towed about 16,000 with a 40/3b and it did ok but it smoke more on take off because it takes longer for the turbos to light. I'm working on a set up that will hopefully do both.
10-13-2006, 03:00 PM
#26
Registered User
I saw a peak of 73psi with my 40/B2 combo...but EGT's were still through the roof on my old 95...timing was at stock, and no studs, headwork, or anything else was done! Not a very good setup for making power!
Now, a proper setup with a 40/B2 made 648.8hp on a 99 24v that member Joefarmer used to have. Cam, ported head, and big sticks...no smoke after the chargers lit, and peaked @ about 76psi IIRC!!
That setup is hard to beat IMHO...but even in the twinset, the HX40 can be a timebomb. Mine was fine, but I have heard of others grenading them as top chargers!
Chris
Now, a proper setup with a 40/B2 made 648.8hp on a 99 24v that member Joefarmer used to have. Cam, ported head, and big sticks...no smoke after the chargers lit, and peaked @ about 76psi IIRC!!
That setup is hard to beat IMHO...but even in the twinset, the HX40 can be a timebomb. Mine was fine, but I have heard of others grenading them as top chargers!
Chris
Im not seeing how
you can have egt issues with a stock setup. Define a proper setup as well, im confused. im really not seeing how the fuel can cause the super high egts with that setup. I know once the air is cool the power will come..
Rick
10-13-2006, 03:05 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What?? You mean 400+hp of fuel at stock timing won't cause high EGT's?? Especially when I have 73psi limited by pop-off's to 60psi?? And the 73psi was where the pop-offs were set before, then I opened them up! Pop-offs are bad for EGT's too!
A proper setup (IMHO, of course) would have been an O-ringed head and block, ARP studs, and timing at about the 24* range, not 13*. This would have allowed me to run that 70psi+ and burn all that fuel with some more air! Not too mention that the extra timing would have helped power AND EGT's!!
Make any more sense now?? With more boost and the timing bumped that was an easy 450-500hp setup...but my laziness/lack of time and the truck being a heavy tow rig prevented me from doing it the way I wanted/needed it to be done That's fixed now with the 98
Chris
A proper setup (IMHO, of course) would have been an O-ringed head and block, ARP studs, and timing at about the 24* range, not 13*. This would have allowed me to run that 70psi+ and burn all that fuel with some more air! Not too mention that the extra timing would have helped power AND EGT's!!
Make any more sense now?? With more boost and the timing bumped that was an easy 450-500hp setup...but my laziness/lack of time and the truck being a heavy tow rig prevented me from doing it the way I wanted/needed it to be done
That's fixed now with the 98Chris
10-13-2006, 03:12 PM
#28
Registered User
What?? You mean 400+hp of fuel at stock timing won't cause high EGT's?? Especially when I have 73psi limited by pop-off's to 60psi?? And the 73psi was where the pop-offs were set before, then I opened them up! Pop-offs are bad for EGT's too!
A proper setup (IMHO, of course) would have been an O-ringed head and block, ARP studs, and timing at about the 24* range, not 13*. This would have allowed me to run that 70psi+ and burn all that fuel with some more air! Not too mention that the extra timing would have helped power AND EGT's!!
Make any more sense now?? With more boost and the timing bumped that was an easy 450-500hp setup...but my laziness/lack of time and the truck being a heavy tow rig prevented me from doing it the way I wanted/needed it to be done That's fixed now with the 98
Chris
A proper setup (IMHO, of course) would have been an O-ringed head and block, ARP studs, and timing at about the 24* range, not 13*. This would have allowed me to run that 70psi+ and burn all that fuel with some more air! Not too mention that the extra timing would have helped power AND EGT's!!
Make any more sense now?? With more boost and the timing bumped that was an easy 450-500hp setup...but my laziness/lack of time and the truck being a heavy tow rig prevented me from doing it the way I wanted/needed it to be done
That's fixed now with the 98Chris
it all makes more sence to me.. Coarse if i run twins i dont think a 16.5 degree timing will work for twins... But then again, neither will a stock gasket and stock studs...
coarse when i was runnin stock timing at less HP than what i have now the EGTS were higher... so i guess now i get it...
Rick
10-13-2006, 03:13 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not with all that fuel you have planned...I'm gonna guess at least 21-22*. Maybe more depending on how far you push that 4K kit
I sure hope that clutch is up to the task!
Chris
I sure hope that clutch is up to the task!
Chris
10-13-2006, 03:19 PM
#30
Registered User
DId away with 191s due to smoke, might put em back after air upgrades....
...4K? i might push it just a little farther, bout 4000 rpms max...., probly after the gasket and studs, illtime it that high...Suppose i do run twins, how will they run with my current setup, lets suppose a 35/B2 combo...
thanks again chris!
Rick