TS MPV...... First impressions
05-13-2008, 10:13 PM
#16
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Now, I asked this earlier and the question gets skirted, I have no doubt that you can show 100hp over stock but, you WILL NOT show a 100 rwhp peak gain.
This means if I put a truck on a dyno and it puts out 200hp, the new number will not be 300hp regardless of what rpm it happens at.
Not that what they are claiming is wrong, it is just different than what Edge, TST or myself claims, and more like the claims of Banks which is a Best Gain number.
As much as I get raked over the coals about power numbers, even after we back them up on dynos, I am certain that someone will stick one on a dyno and give us some numbers.
05-14-2008, 09:10 AM
#18
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I am not doubting TS one bit on this but as soon as this box is released the secret will be out as to how the power is made with out the tap since nothing is being released right now.
05-14-2008, 10:20 AM
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That does not matter. The fact is that the VP44 pump will only allow XXXX fuel number to go through the brain. There is no getting around it.
Now, I asked this earlier and the question gets skirted, I have no doubt that you can show 100hp over stock but, you WILL NOT show a 100 rwhp peak gain.
This means if I put a truck on a dyno and it puts out 200hp, the new number will not be 300hp regardless of what rpm it happens at.
Not that what they are claiming is wrong, it is just different than what Edge, TST or myself claims, and more like the claims of Banks which is a Best Gain number.
As much as I get raked over the coals about power numbers, even after we back them up on dynos, I am certain that someone will stick one on a dyno and give us some numbers.
Now, I asked this earlier and the question gets skirted, I have no doubt that you can show 100hp over stock but, you WILL NOT show a 100 rwhp peak gain.
This means if I put a truck on a dyno and it puts out 200hp, the new number will not be 300hp regardless of what rpm it happens at.
Not that what they are claiming is wrong, it is just different than what Edge, TST or myself claims, and more like the claims of Banks which is a Best Gain number.
As much as I get raked over the coals about power numbers, even after we back them up on dynos, I am certain that someone will stick one on a dyno and give us some numbers.
05-14-2008, 10:43 AM
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Lots of problems with that graph as well. Why are they using a corrections factor?
Why did they let off the stock truck at 2500rpms?
What sort of stock 24v truck is making 223rwhp? What sort of stock 24V is making more rear wheel torque than they are advertised to make at the motor.
Look, I am not saying it cannot be done but, claiming something that is physically impossible will get them raked over the coals.
It is not something no one can figure out, it is something that Bosch put in these pumps for a particular reason and there is no getting around it.
Why did they let off the stock truck at 2500rpms?
What sort of stock 24v truck is making 223rwhp? What sort of stock 24V is making more rear wheel torque than they are advertised to make at the motor.
Look, I am not saying it cannot be done but, claiming something that is physically impossible will get them raked over the coals.
It is not something no one can figure out, it is something that Bosch put in these pumps for a particular reason and there is no getting around it.
05-14-2008, 10:55 AM
#22
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Lots of problems with that graph as well. Why are they using a corrections factor? Does it matter when you are comparing peak to peak? It has Injectors in it, but no other electronics
Why did they let off the stock truck at 2500rpms? they operator let out when the HP started dropping off...it had already been at peak
What sort of stock 24v truck is making 223rwhp? What sort of stock 24V is making more rear wheel torque than they are advertised to make at the motor. It has Edge jammer tips
Look, I am not saying it cannot be done but, claiming something that is physically impossible will get them raked over the coals. You did say it could not be done like 4 posts ago???? and exactly how do you know it is physically impossible? it may be impossible doing things the way you do them, but that means you are doing it just like it has been done before.
It is not something no one can figure out, it is something that Bosch put in these pumps for a particular reason and there is no getting around it. Doing things the way you do it......
Why did they let off the stock truck at 2500rpms? they operator let out when the HP started dropping off...it had already been at peak
What sort of stock 24v truck is making 223rwhp? What sort of stock 24V is making more rear wheel torque than they are advertised to make at the motor. It has Edge jammer tips
Look, I am not saying it cannot be done but, claiming something that is physically impossible will get them raked over the coals. You did say it could not be done like 4 posts ago???? and exactly how do you know it is physically impossible? it may be impossible doing things the way you do them, but that means you are doing it just like it has been done before.
It is not something no one can figure out, it is something that Bosch put in these pumps for a particular reason and there is no getting around it. Doing things the way you do it......
05-14-2008, 11:06 AM
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You guys are advertising:
That is not stock and yes it does matter, a lot.
Let me give you some reasons why.
1.) Without electronics and injectors the computer backs off fuel at 23psi and de-fuels on its own. Manhy times just a boost fooler will get you 40-50rwhp over injectors, and if you happen to have had the wastegate opened up it will make more like a 80hp gain over injectors.
The above is pretty COMMON knowledge.
2.) XXXX amount of fuel is a LOT more when run through an aftermarket injector, that is the point of injectors so when you stretch the pulse you exponetially gain more fuel because of the injectors.
That too is pretty COMMON knowledge.
Why would any electronics manufacturer not use a STOCK truck to do testing and advertising with? It just screams fishy if you don't. There are too many variables.
I stand by what I said, it is impossible to gain more than about 70rwhp on a STOCK 24v truck without tapping the wire and using only electronics. It is a FACT.
Not that I don't think TS is capable of good products but, do you really think that with all my engineers, all of Edge's engineers, TST and Van Aaken........come on be realistic.
I know it ticks you off because he is your buddy but, just be real. I get people calling me out on stuff all the time. If you are going to make a claim you better be able to back it up and have your stuff together. In this case you are claiming the impossible and the story and results are already starting to get changed around.
I just got the Dyno Graph from TS.. MVP Vs. Stock, ran on a SuperFlow!
That is not stock and yes it does matter, a lot.
Let me give you some reasons why.
1.) Without electronics and injectors the computer backs off fuel at 23psi and de-fuels on its own. Manhy times just a boost fooler will get you 40-50rwhp over injectors, and if you happen to have had the wastegate opened up it will make more like a 80hp gain over injectors.
The above is pretty COMMON knowledge.
2.) XXXX amount of fuel is a LOT more when run through an aftermarket injector, that is the point of injectors so when you stretch the pulse you exponetially gain more fuel because of the injectors.
That too is pretty COMMON knowledge.
Why would any electronics manufacturer not use a STOCK truck to do testing and advertising with? It just screams fishy if you don't. There are too many variables.
I stand by what I said, it is impossible to gain more than about 70rwhp on a STOCK 24v truck without tapping the wire and using only electronics. It is a FACT.
Not that I don't think TS is capable of good products but, do you really think that with all my engineers, all of Edge's engineers, TST and Van Aaken........come on be realistic.
I know it ticks you off because he is your buddy but, just be real. I get people calling me out on stuff all the time. If you are going to make a claim you better be able to back it up and have your stuff together. In this case you are claiming the impossible and the story and results are already starting to get changed around.
05-14-2008, 11:10 AM
#24
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Whatever you wanna say bro. It is the strongest non-wire tap box I personally have ever run, and I know you have a chip on your shoulder about TS Performance. I never saw them come in and bust your new 24v Box......
05-14-2008, 11:14 AM
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And Quad, BTW, the guy(Phil) that originally posted the graph on my board had no idea that the truck was not stock If you like, I'll be more than happy to edit that......
05-14-2008, 11:17 AM
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I never claied the impossible either. I also have plenty of people un-related to me or my company that do the testing and post their own graphs.
I believe it is strong. I believe you when you say that it is way stronger than the VA you used to run. That is 100% no doubt believable and I am happy for you.
You are posting graphs saying this box will make 124rwhp without touching the wire. Or basically a COMP box.
All I am saying is why play these games? As soon as it hits the streets and these guys sell a COMP box to get the new 124rwhp no wire tap box they are gonna be ticked off to the max.
I believe it is strong. I believe you when you say that it is way stronger than the VA you used to run. That is 100% no doubt believable and I am happy for you.
You are posting graphs saying this box will make 124rwhp without touching the wire. Or basically a COMP box.
All I am saying is why play these games? As soon as it hits the streets and these guys sell a COMP box to get the new 124rwhp no wire tap box they are gonna be ticked off to the max.
05-14-2008, 01:46 PM
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No, When My FMS shut off, it pretty much fioled any boost fooling from the MVP... The truck would barely pull 75 on the way home. the next day, when I pulled the Map sensor harness from the FMS off, the truck was fine again.
05-14-2008, 01:53 PM
#30
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That dyno graph really doesn't show much in the way of which box on the market makes the most power, because there is no way to see how it would compare to another non wire tap box on the same truck.