Torque converter not holding?
01-06-2006, 08:30 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by J BODY
......described a lock up clutch that is not holding to a "T". When you remove your convertor you'll find the prettiest blue/purple ring around the front of it from all the heat it generated while frying.......and by the way I'm in the same boat you are. I'm going to be shopping around for parts. I have a whole 47re in the garage that I'm going to overhaul. I know I need a convertor, but I'm still wondering if a "kit" in the stock valve body will suffice. I've overhauled a few 727s and 46/47 RE's. I just haven't found alot of info online on what mods can be or need to be done as far as changing fluid flow etc...
01-06-2006, 08:32 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by Stamey
You could buy a 48RE VB and get even more line pressure out of it than a 47RE is capable of.
Chris
Chris
Chris,
Please expound on this?
01-06-2006, 06:30 PM
#19
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I know guys that have upgraded to 48RE VBs because they are capable of about 30psi more line pressure than a 47RE VB. These are guys that are over 600hp though. This may not be necessary on a truck with lesser hp.
Don't quote me, but I think the max on each is 130 and 160 psi.
I only have around 600, and nothing's slipping, so I haven't bothered with the upgrade.
Chris
Don't quote me, but I think the max on each is 130 and 160 psi.
I only have around 600, and nothing's slipping, so I haven't bothered with the upgrade.
Chris
01-06-2006, 06:57 PM
#20
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I guess I am stuck with a decision. Do I put in a better valve body, a torque converter, or both, or do I start looking at built transmissions? I would like to build my old tranny up, but not if it is going to be more $$$$ than a new built tranny. If I do redo my old one, I want to make sure that it will be reliable. Basically don't want to have worry about more problems down the road.
01-06-2006, 07:28 PM
#21
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You can't really go wrong with the VB and TC. Here's how I am building my 96. I was slipping the TC, especially while towing, since I now have 251 hp to the rear wheels (as measured with the slipping TC, so it may be more).
First, I put a better VB in there, with the line pressure turned way up. TC no longer slips, but takes a long time to lock up completely if I am on the throttle hard.
Next WILL be a new TC. I plan to go with a DTT with a tighter fluid coupling (lower stall speed). Once that is done, I will wait to see if anything else breaks. I'm not gonna have enough hp on this truck to need billet shafts, so I just have to see if the clutches hold up. Since the line pressure in the tranny is very high now, the clutches should hold up fine for a long while.
If you plan on getting really high in the HP, you can still go this route, just when you order the complete tranny, order it less VB. They usually don't come with a TC anyway.
Do the VB first. It is cheaper than the TC, and will stop your existing TC from slipping while you save up for the new TC.
Chris
First, I put a better VB in there, with the line pressure turned way up. TC no longer slips, but takes a long time to lock up completely if I am on the throttle hard.
Next WILL be a new TC. I plan to go with a DTT with a tighter fluid coupling (lower stall speed). Once that is done, I will wait to see if anything else breaks. I'm not gonna have enough hp on this truck to need billet shafts, so I just have to see if the clutches hold up. Since the line pressure in the tranny is very high now, the clutches should hold up fine for a long while.
If you plan on getting really high in the HP, you can still go this route, just when you order the complete tranny, order it less VB. They usually don't come with a TC anyway.
Do the VB first. It is cheaper than the TC, and will stop your existing TC from slipping while you save up for the new TC.
Chris
01-06-2006, 11:43 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by Stamey
You can't really go wrong with the VB and TC. Here's how I am building my 96. I was slipping the TC, especially while towing, since I now have 251 hp to the rear wheels (as measured with the slipping TC, so it may be more).
First, I put a better VB in there, with the line pressure turned way up. TC no longer slips, but takes a long time to lock up completely if I am on the throttle hard.
Next WILL be a new TC. I plan to go with a DTT with a tighter fluid coupling (lower stall speed). Once that is done, I will wait to see if anything else breaks. I'm not gonna have enough hp on this truck to need billet shafts, so I just have to see if the clutches hold up. Since the line pressure in the tranny is very high now, the clutches should hold up fine for a long while.
If you plan on getting really high in the HP, you can still go this route, just when you order the complete tranny, order it less VB. They usually don't come with a TC anyway.
Do the VB first. It is cheaper than the TC, and will stop your existing TC from slipping while you save up for the new TC.
Chris
First, I put a better VB in there, with the line pressure turned way up. TC no longer slips, but takes a long time to lock up completely if I am on the throttle hard.
Next WILL be a new TC. I plan to go with a DTT with a tighter fluid coupling (lower stall speed). Once that is done, I will wait to see if anything else breaks. I'm not gonna have enough hp on this truck to need billet shafts, so I just have to see if the clutches hold up. Since the line pressure in the tranny is very high now, the clutches should hold up fine for a long while.
If you plan on getting really high in the HP, you can still go this route, just when you order the complete tranny, order it less VB. They usually don't come with a TC anyway.
Do the VB first. It is cheaper than the TC, and will stop your existing TC from slipping while you save up for the new TC.
Chris
)Eric
01-07-2006, 08:50 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by cumminsdriver635
Does your TC hold even while towing on hills, etc now with the better VB? I can still slip my Goerend converter(basically stock clutch material, but much nicer stall speed) pretty decent in overdrive, and i have to watch it while towing. I plan on a Goerend VB next; and im hoping it will hold around 300hp or more without slipping. I really like the converter; I just need a good VB to go along with it(as soon as i get a job )
Eric
)Eric
You will be amazed when you get a new TC in there. With the ATS TC when it locked up it launched the truck forward because it locked up so quickly. The DTT 89H TC is much tighter, and because of this you can hardly tell when the TC locks up anyway. The RPM drop between the ATS and DTT 89H is about 400-450 RPMs. The tach drops way down as the ATS TC locks up, launching the truck, where the DTT lockup only drops RPMs about 50.
With a better TC in there you'll swear you'r driving a new, more powerful truck. It's so nice to be able to get more of the power to the ground.
Chris
01-07-2006, 10:12 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by downlow
I have been told by a Chrysler tech that coincidentaly they are JUST like the 727s inside. If so they are easy to rebuild *VERY* easy. I have done MANY 727s. The od is a seperate unit installed on the trans tail. ANyhow Im going to do it myself as I have the same issue TO MUCH POWER dawgs... Thoughts anyone??
I agree with you 100% I am tired of everybody on here wanting to throw money ate everything, and that is the answer. I did my shopping around, and I got a TCI 91% converter (the very same one dtt used to sell) for 500$. I put that in there, and a TRANSGO TFOD-DIESEL shift kit, and it ran like a mother until 172000 miles. That is behind a 12 valve with 370s, and a 10 plate most of the way forward. See my signature, and see what that trans has to deal with. At 172000, I noticed a little bit of slippage under power in 2nd and 3rd. I dropped the trans, and I found the front clutches were worn out. They did get a little hot at one time, the steels were blued. I went down to the only machine shop that I trust, and got a rebuild kit, a book, and some pretty knowledgeable advice. I rebuild the transmission at my buddy's shop for about 225$, including the price of fluid, plus about 3 18ers of Bud. you can do a trans like that quite a few times for the price of a DTT or ATS. these are the simplest transmissions to do. You only need a couple of special tools. If you have a press, you are set. You can make a tool to press apart the overdrive clutches. These are a lot easier than any Chevy or Ford transmission. about half the parts of a Chevy, and 1/10 of the special tools. if you are ingenuitive, you can do a transmission on the cheap.
I don't want any of you guys saying oh... you got lucky that it didn't mess up. Yyou should have bought a DTT. I just got one thing to say about that. A country boy will survive.
Mike
01-07-2006, 11:26 AM
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Sweet 
I have a good TC(goerend), and it is a LOT better than the stock converter, but Dave told me the clutch material is about the same as a stock one, so i can still slip it a little in Overdrive unloaded, and in 3rd, and overdrive loaded when its locked. So im hoping that a Goerend VB with an extra 50psi of pressure than my transgo will keep it from slipping; even when loaded. He said it should make the difference, and keep it from slipping; so as soon as i get a job, and make the money, im buying one
Eric
I have a good TC(goerend), and it is a LOT better than the stock converter, but Dave told me the clutch material is about the same as a stock one, so i can still slip it a little in Overdrive unloaded, and in 3rd, and overdrive loaded when its locked. So im hoping that a Goerend VB with an extra 50psi of pressure than my transgo will keep it from slipping; even when loaded. He said it should make the difference, and keep it from slipping; so as soon as i get a job, and make the money, im buying one Eric
Originally Posted by Stamey
Yep, TC holds even on hills now, with my max load of about 11K (tractor and trailer). I let off of it when the TC is locking up, loaded or unloaded, because the TC is already worn, and the lock process, being as slow as it is, is wearing it more. If I just let it get locked before I put pressure on it again it will make what's left in there last longer. Keep in mind I am talking about when I am being hard on the throttle. If I am not trying to beat a ricer, just moderate/normal throttle, I just let the TC lock up where it wants to, and never let off. It still locks up slow, though.
You will be amazed when you get a new TC in there. With the ATS TC when it locked up it launched the truck forward because it locked up so quickly. The DTT 89H TC is much tighter, and because of this you can hardly tell when the TC locks up anyway. The RPM drop between the ATS and DTT 89H is about 400-450 RPMs. The tach drops way down as the ATS TC locks up, launching the truck, where the DTT lockup only drops RPMs about 50.
With a better TC in there you'll swear you'r driving a new, more powerful truck. It's so nice to be able to get more of the power to the ground.
Chris
You will be amazed when you get a new TC in there. With the ATS TC when it locked up it launched the truck forward because it locked up so quickly. The DTT 89H TC is much tighter, and because of this you can hardly tell when the TC locks up anyway. The RPM drop between the ATS and DTT 89H is about 400-450 RPMs. The tach drops way down as the ATS TC locks up, launching the truck, where the DTT lockup only drops RPMs about 50.
With a better TC in there you'll swear you'r driving a new, more powerful truck. It's so nice to be able to get more of the power to the ground.
Chris
01-07-2006, 02:06 PM
#28
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Right!!
Smoke pedal you got it!! The trans have VERY little BS in them and like the Pedal said require very few tools. If you take your time and lay everything out in order ANY trans is petty easy to do. Chebbys have them **** ***** that run all over when the valvebody is removed 727s do not (what about the 47's. Im going to buy a TC, probably a TST and valvebody but of which one Im not sure yet. Can someone point me in right direction. Is the valve body just stock that they throw in a kit and call it a BD or is the BD SUPER SPECIAL SECRET type. I have had friends watch me rebuild their 727s boy did their eyes bulge when I started throwing %#$ away and it shifted so hard it about broke stuff..LOL. Sorry to hijack the thread but I figured the answers Id get would be relevant to your problem so...Im taking over!!!
P.S hey pedal you didnt get lucky it was them BUDS
P.S hey pedal you didnt get lucky it was them BUDS
01-08-2006, 06:16 AM
#29
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I agree with you, a case of Budweiser is a key part of any transmission rebuild, or engine, or axle, rotating tires, checking air in tires...
I wish I would have put a new front drum in it that would hold 5 clutches. I will do it soon enough though. Now that I have had it apart, I know what I need to make it bulletproof. Input, output, band lever, band strut, governor pressure solenoid, accumulator piston double sprung, direct clutch spring, reds and kolenes, I will try putting a stiffer spring in my pressure regulator. If that doesn't work, I will get a SMR shift kit. I am happy with the TC. I am going to get the parts together a little at a time, and when I am happy with what I have, I will do the trans again. I learned that it would have been a lot more expensive
if I would have blown the transmission up hard, rather than caught it when I did.
I wish I would have put a new front drum in it that would hold 5 clutches. I will do it soon enough though. Now that I have had it apart, I know what I need to make it bulletproof. Input, output, band lever, band strut, governor pressure solenoid, accumulator piston double sprung, direct clutch spring, reds and kolenes, I will try putting a stiffer spring in my pressure regulator. If that doesn't work, I will get a SMR shift kit. I am happy with the TC. I am going to get the parts together a little at a time, and when I am happy with what I have, I will do the trans again. I learned that it would have been a lot more expensive
if I would have blown the transmission up hard, rather than caught it when I did.
01-09-2006, 10:15 AM
#30
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Downlow
The 46/47 transmissions are basically a 727, the 47 has some steel planetarys in it while I believe the 46's are all aluminum. When you take a valve body apart the little ***** will go all over unless you orient the VB properly. You are correct, there is not a whole lot involved in rebuilding these units, if you want to "build" a performance transmission you will need to align yourself with someone like Dave Goerend, an awsome guy!!
I did a 47RE two weeks ago using Daves parts and his valve body mods-what a great transmission!!! Thanks again Dave!!
There are a few tools you will need to set up the OD and a spring compressor for one of the drums in the front of the tranny.
I have used the SMR Valve body Kit with great sucess, but the last goround I wanted to use all of Daves stuff, worked great.
You guys don't want to know how much money I saved by doing the tranny myself---Enough for a new turbo and some good Whiskey
Cumminsdriver,
Get the valve body kit from Dave and get it in there before you destroy the TC, it won't take long if you are slipping it!!
Stamey,
With the SMR or Dave valve body kit I usually see about 160-180 PSI with the 47 RE valve body??
The 46/47 transmissions are basically a 727, the 47 has some steel planetarys in it while I believe the 46's are all aluminum. When you take a valve body apart the little ***** will go all over unless you orient the VB properly. You are correct, there is not a whole lot involved in rebuilding these units, if you want to "build" a performance transmission you will need to align yourself with someone like Dave Goerend, an awsome guy!!
I did a 47RE two weeks ago using Daves parts and his valve body mods-what a great transmission!!! Thanks again Dave!!
There are a few tools you will need to set up the OD and a spring compressor for one of the drums in the front of the tranny.
I have used the SMR Valve body Kit with great sucess, but the last goround I wanted to use all of Daves stuff, worked great.
You guys don't want to know how much money I saved by doing the tranny myself---Enough for a new turbo and some good Whiskey
Cumminsdriver,
Get the valve body kit from Dave and get it in there before you destroy the TC, it won't take long if you are slipping it!!
Stamey,
With the SMR or Dave valve body kit I usually see about 160-180 PSI with the 47 RE valve body??