racsw

ronster,
Been reading up on that Hunter machine. Wow... Using Road Force Measurements is how the factory determines the heavy side of the tire, but having this calibration available in a local machine is really a step up for tire houses.
Check this out: http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/ba...159T/4159T.pdf

After reading this, I am convinced this is an Equal issue, but inspection will tell.

Robert

dieseldel

The main issue with beads is weight vs size. I have Balancemasters, which use mercury, very heavy per volume, so does not take all that much to balance. Takes a lot of beads.
I'm sold on the Balancemasters.
I never could get balance on tires, then discoverd these things. Now, when I change to new tires, still totally smooooth driving, absolutely no vibration (at least from the wheels/tires)
Another benefit is that the Balancemasters have improved my stopping traction. As you brake, the weight of the spinning mercury seems to pull the wheels down to the road. It feels strange, but really does stop better, especially on slick roads.

Beads, or anything "inside" the tires is not the same. The problem there is that a tire is not round as it runs on the road. Loading flattens a side, and the beads do not have a round track to run in (if inside tire). So, the balancing is not optimal. Also, I've heard the beads wear due to friction against each other, causing a change in performance over time... Still, they do work, thats for sure.
One thing to remember with any of these balancers is to be sure to remove any and all weights, don't try to balance the tire at all, just let the dynamic balancing do it all. Any weights tend to fight the dynamic balancing.

mikal711

well boys im puting the ceramic beads in tonight , let you know tomorrow, 8 oz in h-2 wheels and bfg we shall see if it was a waist of money.

zulusafari

I just ordered mine. Picked up my 225/70R19.5's yesterday, hope to get them mounted this weekend. Started another thread topic on this, but what is the recommended bead lube? I didn't ask when I bought the beads, and around here every shop uses a soapy solution slopped all over/in/around the rim of the tire. Not how I want mine done, thank you.

mikal711

it has taken me 2 1/2 hours to instal the beads it gos slowly, easy but slow, i think it would have taken longer if they were on the truck . i have not seen anything about bead lube but if you do please let me know. the filtered stems sure do take air slow. so now its bed time and i will instal on truck tomorrow ill let everyone know tomorrow, ohh by the way the weight i took off went from 2.5 to 5. 5

infidel

Don't the Balancemasters run about $175 per tire?

zulusafari

I saw either the Balance Masters or similar for roughly that price per corner. The nice part is that they are 100% reuseable since they are a seperate entity from the wheels. I am not certain if the thickness could cause hub mounting problems between dualls or not, but if someone goes through lots of tires, this could be economicly viable. I decided to run commercial truck tires this round, hoping they are the last set I will need for a long time. I may even be trading in the truck on a newer model before the tires wear out, and don't want to be saddled with a set of balancers that may not fit. I suppose I could resell them to get some money back out of them, but I decided to avoid that hassle.

Also, the weight is still mounted on the "edge" of the wheel, since the balancers mount behind the wheel. I liked the idea of the balancing beads being inside the tire/wheel unit.

racsw

zulusafari,
Either come equipped with a small 1" paintbrush for the mechanic to use on the bead, or just take the edge of a rag, dip it in and wipe it on. Explain to the guy the importance of not dripping any goop on the inside and how that interferes with the beads. The beads are really a new concept for many people, so they don't -why- they have to be careful until you explain it to them.

dieselel,
The ceramic beads by Innovative are extremely hard and very dense. Much harder than glass or any steel. They absolutely will not wear down regardless how many miles you drive.

Whether we're talking Centramatic or BalancerMasters, they install using the same method, between the drum/rotor and the wheel. Aside from the high pricetag, the reason I would always take a good bead over the (Centramatic or BalancerMasters) is because I prefer my counter balance weights to be centered in the tire, not off to the side. The vast majority of tires have some imbalance, but in most cases the imbalance is roughly centered, especially on conventional tires. That's why most balancing houses will split a two ounce weight into one ounce inside, one outside so the tire is not loaded off center. The beads (or any internal media) work in the very center of the tire, where they are more effective.
I personally also dislike having to stay with a particular bolt-hole pattern. If you wanted to change truck manufacturers, you have to buy another set. If Dodge or Ford move up in wheel size, as is becoming popular, that may dictate another new set. Too expensive for my blood... Where they sell a lot of these is for the steer tires on big rigs. Same bolt holes, change the tires at 200,000, run 'em for another 200,000, etc, etc.


Robert

ronster

Well gang it looks like I'll never know if it was beads, tires, or external wheel weights causing my problem. I loaded up the 3 wheel/tires that I found to be causing the most problems. I went looking for a shop that would indulge in the procedure Robert mapped out. This was out of the question with these "good ole boys" down here in Mississippi. When I told them I had polymer beads inside my tires and wanted to get it out. They got this real puzzled look on their faces and said, "You got whut in dem tores?" I did expect more, but since I've lived here most of my life I knew I had my work cut-out for me trying to explain why they were in there and why I wanted them out. Anyway, it was pretty much the same at the other 4 shops. One guy at another Tire shop had heard of the beads, but he told me flat out that it would cost me $37.50 a tire and they probably would be as good as they now! UPS now has the 3 wheel/tires and they are on the back to Rickson. I'm sure they'll correct the problem, but I doubt they'll tell me the fix. I did make one final request. DO NOT PUT NO EQUAL IN DEM TORES! Thanks for the comments folks!

Ronster



[***Edited to remove shop names***]

racsw

ronster,
Wow, I can't believe that happened to you. I also can't believe they would charge you that much for such an easy task.
Well, you did the right thing anyhow, regardless of my suggestions. When you pay a lot of money for something that doesn't work right, you shouldn't have to feel obligated to troubleshoot their problem.

Robert

rattle_rattle

Using this type of balancing, as I read it, the tires are not balanced below 35 MPH. Is this a fair assumption? What kind of problems does this cause?

rattle_rattle

I saw somewhere that someone was using pink RV antifreeze. My only question would be regarding the compatibility of the rubber and aluminum and the pink stuff. Whoever is using this RV antifreeze, please comment.

infidel

My experence is the majority of the beads stick in place no matter how slow you go until you hit a radical bump, then it only takes a few seconds to rebalance, no big deal.
Never used anti-freeze but by it's nature you would have to be up to speed for it to work at all as it would instantly flow to the bottom once you slow down.

racsw

>> Using this type of balancing, as I read it, the tires are not balanced below 35 MPH. Is this a fair assumption?

The beads will stay in place until there is not enough centrifugal force to keep them there, which depends on tire diameter at a given speed, and this equates to somewhere between 25 - 35 mph.

>>What kind of problems does this cause?

None at all.

mikal711

ok guys i instaled the innovative ceramic beads in my 35-70-17 on h-2 wheels and they have impressed me seems smoth at all speeds , i put 8 oz in each tire , the weights i removed rainged from 5.5 oz to 2.0 oz, they have sold me need to order some for wifes car now . ohh my tires are bfg,s . it was not a waist of money thank god.