Is there a good fuel system out there?
01-25-2004 | 09:51 AM
#16
The Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 0
From: Airdrie Canada
I heard that enterprise has a few Faas pumps installed on there puller rigs. I was told they have lots of fuel with these the Faas pump and can't drop the pressure below 12psi at WOT. If it works on their truck it should work for the rest of us. I should have mine installed by the end of the week. I'm tired of the dead pusher pump/lift pump game. They only last for half a year. I upgraded the fittings, installed 1/2 lines, 3/4 fuel pick-up and still they die, so. I figure in a year I will start saving money with the Faas pump, cause by then I would have bought two lift pumps and a pusher pump. More money for fun parts...More time for beer. Its a good thing
01-25-2004 | 03:46 PM
#17
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,199
Likes: 1
From: Branchville, Alabama
Originally posted by Dr. Evil
haulin, how do you like the FASS so far??? have you put many miles on with it?? what kind of fuel pressure are you seeing??
haulin, how do you like the FASS so far??? have you put many miles on with it?? what kind of fuel pressure are you seeing??
Don't have it down pat yet, told a waitress, cute little thing, that I was a Doctor, ahhhhh, did not work
01-25-2004 | 10:47 PM
#18
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Loxahatchee, Fla
I have a high HP truck and the FASS system. When I installed it it had the 10psi spring in it. I talked with Brad (owner of Diesel Performance-builders of the FASS) and he sent me the higher pressure spring. Took 2 minutes to change and now I have 18psi. I can get it down to 16 at WOT. I like the 2 filter/water seperator and I did not buy it for its claimed hp increases. I bought it because I did not want to have to change out another wonderful* lift pump again. I used the line they supply but I hooked it up to the stock 3/8" metal line and then used the hose and fitting they supply to connect to injector pump. I removed the factory lift pump and filter assembly and the extra space allowed me to mount my bypass filter in the old filter area.
*Edited by Moderator
*Edited by Moderator
01-27-2004 | 12:43 PM
#19
DTR Advertiser
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 741
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From: Va Beach,Va
Put about 500miles on my Fass over the last week. Love it so far Temps have been down to the high teens and no problems without the fuel heater. Changed the primary filter to a Baldwin bt-372mpg due to a 5 micron rating and it still holds 15psi at wot and 18 at idle. Highly recommend it so far. Tim
01-29-2004 | 05:18 PM
#20
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,564
Likes: 6
From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
Thanks for the good reports, fellas.
I am installing my Wildcat Max Flow system tomorrow. So far, my stock LP is holding nicely.
I am curious is to what types of mods are needed to install the Fass or Preporator. How do they plumb into the stock steel line? What kind of fittings are on the FASS head?
I think a FASS might be in my future, but I want to see how far my stock LP and Fitch Fuel Catalyst will go.
Justin
I am installing my Wildcat Max Flow system tomorrow. So far, my stock LP is holding nicely.
I am curious is to what types of mods are needed to install the Fass or Preporator. How do they plumb into the stock steel line? What kind of fittings are on the FASS head?
I think a FASS might be in my future, but I want to see how far my stock LP and Fitch Fuel Catalyst will go.
Justin
01-29-2004 | 10:30 PM
#21
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 7,129
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From: The Great White North
Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
Don't have it down pat yet, told a waitress, cute little thing, that I was a Doctor, ahhhhh, did not work
Don't have it down pat yet, told a waitress, cute little thing, that I was a Doctor, ahhhhh, did not work
thanks for the FASS info. Looks like a good solution...so far.....
01-30-2004 | 12:10 AM
#22
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,300
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From: stupid ohio
Originally posted by HOHN
I am curious is to what types of mods are needed to install the Fass or Preporator. How do they plumb into the stock steel line? What kind of fittings are on the FASS head?
Justin
I am curious is to what types of mods are needed to install the Fass or Preporator. How do they plumb into the stock steel line? What kind of fittings are on the FASS head?
Justin
brandon.
08-08-2004 | 12:51 AM
#23
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Warr Acres, Oklahoma
Originally posted by csutton7
Chris Sutton’s(csutton7) gravity fed fuel system from March 2000
I believe I drilled a 13/16” hole (predrilled with smaller bits first)-mostly by hand to not tear up the tank—it wants to peel off in big chunks so I spun the bit in the drill by hand and took it real slow—cutting the big chunks off with a razor blade(a hole saw would probably work better-I undersized the hole slightly to keep everything very tight for the bulhead fitting)
-10 AN 90* bulkhead cut down(on the tank side as it sticks up to high) with 2 poly washers and one nut—I also chamfered the bulk head fitting after cutting it down in height--
You will need to make a sheet metal washer for the outside of the bulkhead so that it won’t pull up into the tank—use a good thread sealant—I used Teflon in a tube
After the bulkhead I used a –10 AN 90* coupler
-10AN shutoff valve(makes changing fuel pumps a breeze)
-10AN 90* hose end---hose and a straight –10AN hose end
Aeromotive 12301 in-line filter(has –10 ports) you need the fittings for both sides of the filter
Two –10 AN straight hose ends and short hose to go between filter and pump or a –10 AN coupling
Aeromotive pump A1000 p/#11101 and fittings for both sides( I reduced the outlet side to –08AN) I fabbed a mount out a pc of angle and bolted it to the frame just in front of the tank
-08AN straight end from pump for hose to filter and the appropriate fitting to filter(most likely a 90* -08AN, but check it out first)
Depending on what filter you use, you will need the appropriate fittings for the filter—you can buy weber carb(12mmx1.5) to –08AN from a few places now if you use your stock filter—I used a RACOR unit that had plugs for WIF/heater(I think Earl’s or Aeroquip now have them also)—you can buy a filter head from Jegs or Summit and use a different spin on filter it you want—you will probably have to fab a mount for the filter head if you change it out--
Out of the filter I used a –08AN inline fuel pressure adapter(they have different ones so pick the one you need and ends or couplings to make it work)
-08AN staight hose end with pc of hose and another –08AN straight hose end into the AEROMOTIVE bypass regulator p/#13301—you will need 3 of the pipe to AN fitting adapters( I think it was 3/8” pipe to –08AN, but check with your supplier)(also some plugs, 3 I think—again check with your supplier)
You will need some hose with a –08AN straight end and a 90* end to go from regulator to VP44 and another 12mmx1.5 weber carb adapter to –08AN fitting
Out of the regulator you will need another pipe to AN adapter and a 90* hose end (could be different depending where you put the regulator(mine is by the battery)
You then can run the hose back to the tank and tap into where you want with a bulk head fitting or tap into the overflow tank fill tube(3/4” rubber hose) I cut the hose intalled a tee and used a straight –08AN hose end
Good luck—this should get you very close to all you need—hose length will depend on your truck I think I used 25-30 feet of hose for supply and return Quad Cab long bed---
Remember to block off your OEM supply
I used a 30amp relay triggered off the OEM lift pump wire to supply power to the pump—
Chris Sutton-
Chris Sutton’s(csutton7) gravity fed fuel system from March 2000
I believe I drilled a 13/16” hole (predrilled with smaller bits first)-mostly by hand to not tear up the tank—it wants to peel off in big chunks so I spun the bit in the drill by hand and took it real slow—cutting the big chunks off with a razor blade(a hole saw would probably work better-I undersized the hole slightly to keep everything very tight for the bulhead fitting)
-10 AN 90* bulkhead cut down(on the tank side as it sticks up to high) with 2 poly washers and one nut—I also chamfered the bulk head fitting after cutting it down in height--
You will need to make a sheet metal washer for the outside of the bulkhead so that it won’t pull up into the tank—use a good thread sealant—I used Teflon in a tube
After the bulkhead I used a –10 AN 90* coupler
-10AN shutoff valve(makes changing fuel pumps a breeze)
-10AN 90* hose end---hose and a straight –10AN hose end
Aeromotive 12301 in-line filter(has –10 ports) you need the fittings for both sides of the filter
Two –10 AN straight hose ends and short hose to go between filter and pump or a –10 AN coupling
Aeromotive pump A1000 p/#11101 and fittings for both sides( I reduced the outlet side to –08AN) I fabbed a mount out a pc of angle and bolted it to the frame just in front of the tank
-08AN straight end from pump for hose to filter and the appropriate fitting to filter(most likely a 90* -08AN, but check it out first)
Depending on what filter you use, you will need the appropriate fittings for the filter—you can buy weber carb(12mmx1.5) to –08AN from a few places now if you use your stock filter—I used a RACOR unit that had plugs for WIF/heater(I think Earl’s or Aeroquip now have them also)—you can buy a filter head from Jegs or Summit and use a different spin on filter it you want—you will probably have to fab a mount for the filter head if you change it out--
Out of the filter I used a –08AN inline fuel pressure adapter(they have different ones so pick the one you need and ends or couplings to make it work)
-08AN staight hose end with pc of hose and another –08AN straight hose end into the AEROMOTIVE bypass regulator p/#13301—you will need 3 of the pipe to AN fitting adapters( I think it was 3/8” pipe to –08AN, but check with your supplier)(also some plugs, 3 I think—again check with your supplier)
You will need some hose with a –08AN straight end and a 90* end to go from regulator to VP44 and another 12mmx1.5 weber carb adapter to –08AN fitting
Out of the regulator you will need another pipe to AN adapter and a 90* hose end (could be different depending where you put the regulator(mine is by the battery)
You then can run the hose back to the tank and tap into where you want with a bulk head fitting or tap into the overflow tank fill tube(3/4” rubber hose) I cut the hose intalled a tee and used a straight –08AN hose end
Good luck—this should get you very close to all you need—hose length will depend on your truck I think I used 25-30 feet of hose for supply and return Quad Cab long bed---
Remember to block off your OEM supply
I used a 30amp relay triggered off the OEM lift pump wire to supply power to the pump—
Chris Sutton-
did you use a bulkhead at the top of the tank or the bottom, and is the system still working good...
i have a A1000 just lyeing around from my old mustang fuel system and i could out it to good use
08-08-2004 | 12:59 AM
#24
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,199
Likes: 1
From: Branchville, Alabama
Lot of work, I just punched the hole with a hole saw, slapped the fitting in from the inside, washer and nut on the outside, tightened it up, no leaks no problems. The tank is plastic and is the gasket. See my pictures.
08-16-2004 | 12:56 PM
#26
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: rome,ny
boy you guys spend alot of money on this and ain't really doing much.First of all there is a thing called an overflow valve in the return side of the fuel system that controls the fuel psi.It uses a spring and check ball.No matter what anybody selling holley pumps tells you they don't hold up to diesel.I e-mailed holley and they wouldn't recommend using any of there pumps w/ fuel oil.I have been using a FASS for 6 months w/out a relay and have had no problems w/it.You only need 15 psi at any one time to get the max efficencie out of the engine.Volume is what you will need to supply the higher horse power.To high of fuel psi will make the engine start hard just the same way not enough will.Also this system removes the air from the fuel which will kill your power no matter what fuel system you have.Dodge uses push loc fittings w/ o-rings on there fuel lines and they will suck air make the truck run like crap.Can also cause drain back to the tank.My 2 c's worth....Jim
08-17-2004 | 07:53 AM
#27
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,311
Likes: 52
From: Holly Ridge, N.C.
pro439:
No disrespect or anything, but I disagree with you about
the Holley Pumps! I have had one on my 2002 now for over
seven (7) months with no problems at all. My son has one
on his 2003 Dodge CTD CR also, no problems either. I know
several Dodge CTD owners who have used the Holley Blue
and Red pumps for up to two years with no problems. I
don't know who you talked to at Holley, but I have spoke
to their representatives at rallies and drag race events
and they said nothing to me about their pumps not being
compatible with #2 diesel. In fact, they said "Glad to hear
the pump is working good for you."
Both my son and I tried the infamous PE 4200 Fuel Pump
which at the time was said to be "the last diesel fuel pump
you will ever need!" Well, neither one of the two I had
lasted for more than three months! FWIW, I know of four
(4) Dodge CTD owners who have had failures of the FASS
pumps too. I have also seen failures of the Mallory 4140
and 4140M, the Aeromotive #11203 and Carter 4140's.
I am glad your FASS has worked well, but that does not
mean it couldn't quit on you.
What I look at is this. If I have a failure with a fuel pump
(like I did on the Interstate with my PE 4200 last December)
can I pull into a national auto parts store and get help
or a replacement?? With my PE 4200 the answer to that
was "NO!" With my little old Holley Red the answer is "YES!"
Advance Auto Parts stores are dealers for the Holley Fuel
Pumps. Also, for some owners price is a factor. The Holley
Red Pumps run about $95.00 the Holley Blues about $120.00.
My PE 4200 was $300.00! The FASS Pumps are close to that
and I see the new Air Dog at over $600.00!
Time will tell how all these pumps hold up. But for now I
think the Holley's are a good alternative! Just my .02 cents
worth!
---------
John_P
No disrespect or anything, but I disagree with you about
the Holley Pumps! I have had one on my 2002 now for over
seven (7) months with no problems at all. My son has one
on his 2003 Dodge CTD CR also, no problems either. I know
several Dodge CTD owners who have used the Holley Blue
and Red pumps for up to two years with no problems. I
don't know who you talked to at Holley, but I have spoke
to their representatives at rallies and drag race events
and they said nothing to me about their pumps not being
compatible with #2 diesel. In fact, they said "Glad to hear
the pump is working good for you."
Both my son and I tried the infamous PE 4200 Fuel Pump
which at the time was said to be "the last diesel fuel pump
you will ever need!" Well, neither one of the two I had
lasted for more than three months! FWIW, I know of four
(4) Dodge CTD owners who have had failures of the FASS
pumps too. I have also seen failures of the Mallory 4140
and 4140M, the Aeromotive #11203 and Carter 4140's.
I am glad your FASS has worked well, but that does not
mean it couldn't quit on you.
What I look at is this. If I have a failure with a fuel pump
(like I did on the Interstate with my PE 4200 last December)
can I pull into a national auto parts store and get help
or a replacement?? With my PE 4200 the answer to that
was "NO!" With my little old Holley Red the answer is "YES!"
Advance Auto Parts stores are dealers for the Holley Fuel
Pumps. Also, for some owners price is a factor. The Holley
Red Pumps run about $95.00 the Holley Blues about $120.00.
My PE 4200 was $300.00! The FASS Pumps are close to that
and I see the new Air Dog at over $600.00!
Time will tell how all these pumps hold up. But for now I
think the Holley's are a good alternative! Just my .02 cents
worth!
---------
John_P
08-17-2004 | 12:28 PM
#28
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
My 2 cents
I feel very strongly that the Fuel module is the source of the problems not neccesarily the pumps etc. DC overengineered the **** thing and it causes problems. My FASS and VP were both bitten by this thing. I have been talking to a TDR member who was getting a pulsing fuel output from his FASS because the fuel module was being sucked closed
I am in the process of building my own simple module with a standard pickup tube and a capacitance type fuel level sender to eliminate the OEM sender failures. I really think this coupled with my FASS will give the VP its best chance of survival. It does not matter how good the lift pump is if it sucks closed. I have not found any other diesel vehicles wit a tank module like DC uses. Boaters, truckers etc. use a simple pick up tube and let the filter water seperators do thier job. That is why the guys with the bottom sump deals have no trouble (I am just scared of dumping my fuel so I will go out the top. A simple steel plate with a lip for the gasket and NPT ports for supply, return, FAss return, Rollover valve and Fuel gage sender is all I am doing. Once my truck is back together I'll post some pics.
BTW, Just had a CAT engineer that used to work for Cummins visit our plant today. I asked him about the VP and he laughed and said Cummins had to come up with something to meet emmissions in a big hurray and the 98.5-02 system is what they "threw" together. I am sure DC had even less time with thier part which would explain some of our misery!
I am in the process of building my own simple module with a standard pickup tube and a capacitance type fuel level sender to eliminate the OEM sender failures. I really think this coupled with my FASS will give the VP its best chance of survival. It does not matter how good the lift pump is if it sucks closed. I have not found any other diesel vehicles wit a tank module like DC uses. Boaters, truckers etc. use a simple pick up tube and let the filter water seperators do thier job. That is why the guys with the bottom sump deals have no trouble (I am just scared of dumping my fuel so I will go out the top. A simple steel plate with a lip for the gasket and NPT ports for supply, return, FAss return, Rollover valve and Fuel gage sender is all I am doing. Once my truck is back together I'll post some pics. BTW, Just had a CAT engineer that used to work for Cummins visit our plant today. I asked him about the VP and he laughed and said Cummins had to come up with something to meet emmissions in a big hurray and the 98.5-02 system is what they "threw" together. I am sure DC had even less time with thier part which would explain some of our misery!
08-17-2004 | 05:54 PM
#29
DTR Advertiser
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
From: Va Beach,Va
I now have used a Fass for 8 mos and 14000 miles. Works like it did the day I bought it. 17 psi at idle 15 at wot. There is several alternatives out there now but the Fass is doing well for me. Mine is wired through a relay, triggered by the stock lift pump harness. Tim
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