Ph4tty

I thought it was the meth lighting before the cylinder reached TDC aka pre-ignition aka pinging.

Mcmopar

Infidel, haven't you learned anything yet????

HOHN

Ph4tty is correct.

If you are running so much water that you're hydraulically locking the cylinder, it's not the HG that will fail-- but you are likely to crack a piston, bend a rod, split a crank, etc etc. You may even crack the head. Water is too viscous to be pumped through a "blown" hg fast enough to relieve the pressure, so you'll end up with much worse, more expensive damage.

Meth CAN preignite because you have a fuel in the cylinder before the actual combustion event.

In low meth concentrations, this isn't really a concern, but at higher concentrations, it definitely is.

jh

wannadiesel

My truck is significantly overfueled (note the avatar). In my experience 15-20% meth is the minimum you want to run, even if cooling is your only goal. When you inject straight water, it is very easy to "put out the fire" and bog the motor down. A small percentage of methanol allows a much higher total volume of water/meth to be sprayed into the intake. More spray = more cooling.

I have also found that even on my heavily fueled truck 50% meth makes more HP that 20% meth. EGT's decrease less with the 50% mix than with the 20% mix.

It's a common misconception that methanol cools the air more than water. Methanol has a lower vapor point than water, so it feels colder on your skin, but water has a higher latent heat of vaporization. In simple terms this means that it take more heat to change a drop of water to vapor than it does to change a drop of methanol to vapor. The higher the water content of the water/meth mix, the more heat it "absorbs" as it vaporizes in the intake plumbing.

joefarmer

I've run a big Stage-2 Snow kit. The kit on 100% water kept the EGT at 1200F with 15psi boost for about 0.5 seconds. The kit on 50 racing meth/50 distilled water kept the EGT at 1200F with 15psi boost for 0.75 seconds.
In other words, two .625 ml/min can't keep up with my aggressive fueling. It did kick boost up 10psi to a total of 40psi. Needless to say, I took it off and it's forsale in the classifieds.

brnadon.

HOHN

I stand corrected. Water does, in fact, have a higher latent heat of vaporization:

Meth is 1008 joules/gram
Water is 2264 joules/gram.

Good to know! My apologies for not doing my homework....

blackdiesel

ok lets say i bought a stage two kit and im pushing 500-550 hp with a silver bullet, how would i set it up?

RowJ

Pretty straight forward...directions are good!

1-three holes on backside of airhorn.... 2 for nozzles... 1 for boost sensor.
2-Pump fits nicely, on 02's, under left frt. fender... outside of wheel well cover. There is a strong aluminum plate there...drill 4 holes and mount pump underneath. Great spot IF using washer bottle.
3-Controller velcros on top of fuse box... like an EZ
4-Tap bottom of washer bottle... hose to pump...hose from pump to nozzles (with a supplied splitter).
5-Wire from pump to battery.
6-Hose (boost reading) from air horn to controller.... Done

Use controller to set start and full positions... with 2 different boost dials. I use 20 psi/50 psi. (on a big single turbo I used 20psi/35 psi)
I hooked up system on/off switch on A-pillar (tweeter is long gone), with green LED light that comes on when actually injecting.

RJ

blackdiesel

explain this a little more please!

btw: great info!

RowJ

The box has two dials on it. first one sets boost level for initial injection. Second is boost setting for full on... based on how much pressure you set up on the pump (also adjustable).
It's really more than a 2-stage. the pump 'ramps up' from initial to full setting .... for a smooth and gradual increase in quantity of fluid being injected! You're just setting the "start" boost level and "full on" level.

Nice system...works well when not abused.
I am conservative on % meth used (40% max) and on pump pressure... so only realize about 40 hp gain... kind of a saftey factor. My set up is based on getting 200* EGT drop when heavy on steep grades.
Don't need it anymore, due to twins... thought about selling it, but it's kind of fun to have.

RJ

blackdiesel

ok thanks alot RJ!

plow

I about fell out of my chair

Bart Timothy

I have quite a bit of experience using Snow's water/meth to reduce egts while towing.

I ran the stage 2 system for close to 2 years and have been using the stage 3 for the past year and a half. I was attracted to water injection because I wanted lower egts without going to a larger, laggy, smoky, single turbo, or the expense and complexity of twins. The operational theory of it looked very good, where the theory of going to after market air cleaners and larger exhausts for egt reduction had never cut it. I'm able to see an immediate and dramatic reduction in egts, no questions asked.

I'm using one #625 jet at a pump pressure of 200 to 225 psi, max. At that pressure the jet will flow one gallon in just under a minute, but fortunatly the pump rarely has to go that high. Using the stage 2 system set for the pump to come in at 15 lbs boost, with max at 30 lbs, with the 225 psi pump setting, water consumption was high and cooling was good. Drivability wasn't that great but was easy to get used to. It didn't really reduced egts until I got out of the throttle a bit, but with the extra power from the meth, I was able to maintain speed at a lower throttle setting and lower egts. Once the water was "on" I could get into the throttle more without increasing the egts.

The stage 3 system is a whole new ball game. The pump is controlled by both egts and boost, but I don't know what agorithm Snow uses in the controller programing. There is an "in cab" adjustable sensativity ****. The pump comes in at a much lower duty cycle than when with the stage 2 controller, the whole driving experience is much smoother, and the throttle doesn't have to be backed off to start egt reduction. The egts just never get above 1250 degrees unless I really push it very hard.

I've tried every thing, from straight water, to 50/50 meth/water mix. Staright water dosen't work well, and to get enough cooling out of it I had in inject so much that the "flame" would go out and the engine would start to stumble. What does work well is windshield washer antifreeze. I really like the -30 degree stuff. It cools well, doesn't put out the flame, and gives a nice power increase. The -20 degree stuff also works well and is cheap and easy to get.

I use a 6 gallon tank, which lasts 400 to 500 miles, towing through out the Rocky Mountains with the stage 3. The stage 2 system didn't get near that good of milage, though, for the same amount of egt reduction.

Truck is an '01 ETH/DEE, using a standard HTB2-12 turbo, STOCK air cleaner, and the best dyno run to date was 542 hp on a .05 correction factor, with the stock vp44 and that configuration. It now has a HRVP44 and I have no idea what the power is, but the Snow water/meth is sure working out well for me. Lots of towing power and no egt problems.

Mcmopar

What are you using the red and green LED's for in the a pillar?

Bart Timothy

I'm a druggie. The green light monitors when the propane is entering the engine. I run about 35 or 40 hp worth - enough to give a couple of extra diesel miles to the gallon. Been using the stuff since June of 2000 on this truck and have never kicked the habit. The system originally started life as one of the very rare Edge Pros.

The red light was used to monitor the water injection pump operation during my initial testing and setup of the Snow stage 2. Burned up 4 stage 2 controllers before Snow finally came up with one which could run the pump for 5 to 10 minutes at a time. I then converted over to a water (air) pressure guage to tell me what the pump was doing, during my setup of the stage 3.

Both lights are relics of earlier experimentations and development. They're still in use today because I enjoy watching them turn on and off.