Ordered Water/Methanol Injection Kit
07-30-2006, 01:06 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by ahollowtub
And no way in hell would I run ww fluid thru my engine.Meth is cheap.
07-30-2006, 01:16 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by infidel
You are ignorant then. WW fluid is nothing more than meth plus distilled water.
Oh really??No additives or dyes I suppose?Read before you show youre lack of knowledge.
07-30-2006, 01:54 PM
#18
Administrator / Scooter Bum
Originally Posted by ahollowtub
Pour room temp methanol on your hands then pour room temp water on your hands and tell me which is colder then report back with your findings,lol,
Just kidding folks....don't try this at home.
If your EGTs are at room temperature, you have some SERIOUS problems.
Compare apples with apples.
07-30-2006, 02:20 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by ahollowtub
MISINFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
Methanol cools alot better than water.The "water is better" myth started in the begining of AI when the pumps were not alcohol compatable.
Methanol cools alot better than water.The "water is better" myth started in the begining of AI when the pumps were not alcohol compatable.
I have not done a scientific study but I have seen more egt drop with 25% racing meth than I have with 50% racing meth! Almost 100* on long hill climbs, to be specific.
RJ
07-30-2006, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ahollowtub
Oh really??No additives or dyes I suppose?Read before you show youre lack of knowledge.
07-30-2006, 03:04 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by ahollowtub
Oh really??No additives or dyes I suppose?Read before you show youre lack of knowledge.
07-30-2006, 03:13 PM
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funny what this thread turned into.. all i wanted to know was people's experiences with meth/water injection since i already ordered the stuff.. lol.. oh well.. at least you kids are having fun.
07-30-2006, 03:24 PM
#24
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I've just completed the install of a Coolingmist Vari-Cool W/M system (as found here ~ https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=110748) and can vouch for the improvement in performance as well as a drop in EGT's. . . . . using TroubleFree WW fluid as found at Advance Auto Parts (45% methanol).
It works VERY well.
For example here's an MSDS for a well known brand of WW fluid (Peak -25) ~ http://www.peakantifreeze.com/msds/m...h_minus_25.pdf
<35% Methanol
It works VERY well.
For example here's an MSDS for a well known brand of WW fluid (Peak -25) ~ http://www.peakantifreeze.com/msds/m...h_minus_25.pdf
<35% Methanol
07-30-2006, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by n0ne
funny what this thread turned into.. all i wanted to know was people's experiences with meth/water injection since i already ordered the stuff.. lol.. oh well.. at least you kids are having fun.
07-30-2006, 05:46 PM
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Ahollowtub: You should consider who people perceive you to be (<10 posts) compared to who we KNOW infidel to be. Calling him ignorant is not only bad form, but makes you look like an arrogant young punk that thinks he's some kind of diesel expert because he's been reading Diesel Power for three consecutive months. Earn your credibility by making knowledgeable posts-- not by unnecessarily insulting others and demonstrating a poor attitude.
Anyhow, onto Water/Meth. Which cools better?
The answer is that it depends on a lot of different things. Methanol has a )CORRECTION: LOWER) "latent heat of vaporization". That means that a given quantity of Meth will absorb (correction: LESS) heat as it evaporates than will an identical amount of water. So if you just inject either into your engine, then pure water will cool down the incoming air better than pure meth will.
But there's a problem. We're not really trying to decrease intake temps or combustion temps-- we're trying to decrease EXHAUST temps, so more heat is converted to work and less is wasted going out the pipe.
Meth is a FUEL. As such, it will burn in the cylinder, and will CONSUME OXYGEN TO DO SO. This is really important. What does this mean if you are really overfueled? This means that there will be less oxygen available for the diesel fuel. This will SLOW the rate of combustion and RAISE EGT. Conversely, if you are injecting methanol (pure meth) under much leaner cylinder conditions, then the consumption of excess oxygen is irrelevant, because there's "plenty to go around". The result here is more power AND lower EGT.
So, the question of whether or not pure methanol will raise or lower EGT is simply one of the amount of meth, the amount of diesel, and the amount of oxygen. One one side of the balacing point, meth lowers EGT while on the other is raises it.
What about water? Well, water DOES cool the intake charge as it evaporates. Just not as much as meth. So-- to the extent that EGT is a function of intake temps (they are related, but obviously intake temp isn't the only EGT factor), the meth will lower EGTs more.
But if you are severely overfueled (say, like the Schied truck), then pure water is best because it is NOT a fuel, and will NOT consume oxygen because it's not burning. So you get overall lower EGT because the diesel fuel has all the available oxygen and doesn't have to share it with the meth.
So how does this play out in what a person "should" or "can" run?? Let's say we have three different CTDs, both wanting to run an injection system for pulling a 12K TT:
-- 1st truck is bone stock. Needs a little more power and maintain the same or slightly lower EGTs.
-- 2nd truck is mildly bombed (+60hp over stock)
-- 3rd truck is BIG bombed (+200hp over stock)
Truck one should run a high mix of meth (say 50-75%) to increase power and maintain or slightly lower EGT.
Truck two should run a lower mix of meth (15-50%) to focus more on temp reduction, and he's running more fuel (no room for as much meth)
Truck Three should run NO meth-- just water. He has a lot more fuel, and doesn't need any more power-- just a little more cooling.
**I'm Justin, and I approved this message**
Anyhow, onto Water/Meth. Which cools better?
The answer is that it depends on a lot of different things. Methanol has a )CORRECTION: LOWER) "latent heat of vaporization". That means that a given quantity of Meth will absorb (correction: LESS) heat as it evaporates than will an identical amount of water. So if you just inject either into your engine, then pure water will cool down the incoming air better than pure meth will.
But there's a problem. We're not really trying to decrease intake temps or combustion temps-- we're trying to decrease EXHAUST temps, so more heat is converted to work and less is wasted going out the pipe.
Meth is a FUEL. As such, it will burn in the cylinder, and will CONSUME OXYGEN TO DO SO. This is really important. What does this mean if you are really overfueled? This means that there will be less oxygen available for the diesel fuel. This will SLOW the rate of combustion and RAISE EGT. Conversely, if you are injecting methanol (pure meth) under much leaner cylinder conditions, then the consumption of excess oxygen is irrelevant, because there's "plenty to go around". The result here is more power AND lower EGT.
So, the question of whether or not pure methanol will raise or lower EGT is simply one of the amount of meth, the amount of diesel, and the amount of oxygen. One one side of the balacing point, meth lowers EGT while on the other is raises it.
What about water? Well, water DOES cool the intake charge as it evaporates. Just not as much as meth. So-- to the extent that EGT is a function of intake temps (they are related, but obviously intake temp isn't the only EGT factor), the meth will lower EGTs more.
But if you are severely overfueled (say, like the Schied truck), then pure water is best because it is NOT a fuel, and will NOT consume oxygen because it's not burning. So you get overall lower EGT because the diesel fuel has all the available oxygen and doesn't have to share it with the meth.
So how does this play out in what a person "should" or "can" run?? Let's say we have three different CTDs, both wanting to run an injection system for pulling a 12K TT:
-- 1st truck is bone stock. Needs a little more power and maintain the same or slightly lower EGTs.
-- 2nd truck is mildly bombed (+60hp over stock)
-- 3rd truck is BIG bombed (+200hp over stock)
Truck one should run a high mix of meth (say 50-75%) to increase power and maintain or slightly lower EGT.
Truck two should run a lower mix of meth (15-50%) to focus more on temp reduction, and he's running more fuel (no room for as much meth)
Truck Three should run NO meth-- just water. He has a lot more fuel, and doesn't need any more power-- just a little more cooling.
**I'm Justin, and I approved this message**
07-30-2006, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by HOHN
Ahollowtub: You should consider who people perceive you to be (<10 posts) compared to who we KNOW infidel to be. Calling him ignorant is not only bad form, but makes you look like an arrogant young punk that thinks he's some kind of diesel expert because he's been reading Diesel Power for three consecutive months. Earn your credibility by making knowledgeable posts-- not by unnecessarily insulting others and demonstrating a poor attitude.
Anyhow, onto Water/Meth. Which cools better?
The answer is that it depends on a lot of different things. Methanol has a higher "latent heat of vaporization". That means that a given quantity of Meth will absorb more heat as it evaporates than will an identical amount of water. So if you just inject either into your engine, then pure meth will cool down the incoming air better than pure water will.
But there's a problem. We're not really trying to decrease intake temps or combustion temps-- we're trying to decrease EXHAUST temps, so more heat is converted to work and less is wasted going out the pipe.
Meth is a FUEL. As such, it will burn in the cylinder, and will CONSUME OXYGEN TO DO SO. This is really important. What does this mean if you are really overfueled? This means that there will be less oxygen available for the diesel fuel. This will SLOW the rate of combustion and RAISE EGT. Conversely, if you are injecting methanol (pure meth) under much leaner cylinder conditions, then the consumption of excess oxygen is irrelevant, because there's "plenty to go around". The result here is more power AND lower EGT.
So, the question of whether or not pure methanol will raise or lower EGT is simply one of the amount of meth, the amount of diesel, and the amount of oxygen. One one side of the balacing point, meth lowers EGT while on the other is raises it.
What about water? Well, water DOES cool the intake charge as it evaporates. Just not as much as meth. So-- to the extent that EGT is a function of intake temps (they are related, but obviously intake temp isn't the only EGT factor), the meth will lower EGTs more.
But if you are severely overfueled (say, like the Schied truck), then pure water is best because it is NOT a fuel, and will NOT consume oxygen because it's not burning. So you get overall lower EGT because the diesel fuel has all the available oxygen and doesn't have to share it with the meth.
So how does this play out in what a person "should" or "can" run?? Let's say we have three different CTDs, both wanting to run an injection system for pulling a 12K TT:
-- 1st truck is bone stock. Needs a little more power and maintain the same or slightly lower EGTs.
-- 2nd truck is mildly bombed (+60hp over stock)
-- 3rd truck is BIG bombed (+200hp over stock)
Truck one should run a high mix of meth (say 50-75%) to increase power and maintain or slightly lower EGT.
Truck two should run a lower mix of meth (15-50%) to focus more on temp reduction, and he's running more fuel (no room for as much meth)
Truck Three should run NO meth-- just water. He has a lot more fuel, and doesn't need any more power-- just a little more cooling.
**I'm Justin, and I approved this message**
Anyhow, onto Water/Meth. Which cools better?
The answer is that it depends on a lot of different things. Methanol has a higher "latent heat of vaporization". That means that a given quantity of Meth will absorb more heat as it evaporates than will an identical amount of water. So if you just inject either into your engine, then pure meth will cool down the incoming air better than pure water will.
But there's a problem. We're not really trying to decrease intake temps or combustion temps-- we're trying to decrease EXHAUST temps, so more heat is converted to work and less is wasted going out the pipe.
Meth is a FUEL. As such, it will burn in the cylinder, and will CONSUME OXYGEN TO DO SO. This is really important. What does this mean if you are really overfueled? This means that there will be less oxygen available for the diesel fuel. This will SLOW the rate of combustion and RAISE EGT. Conversely, if you are injecting methanol (pure meth) under much leaner cylinder conditions, then the consumption of excess oxygen is irrelevant, because there's "plenty to go around". The result here is more power AND lower EGT.
So, the question of whether or not pure methanol will raise or lower EGT is simply one of the amount of meth, the amount of diesel, and the amount of oxygen. One one side of the balacing point, meth lowers EGT while on the other is raises it.
What about water? Well, water DOES cool the intake charge as it evaporates. Just not as much as meth. So-- to the extent that EGT is a function of intake temps (they are related, but obviously intake temp isn't the only EGT factor), the meth will lower EGTs more.
But if you are severely overfueled (say, like the Schied truck), then pure water is best because it is NOT a fuel, and will NOT consume oxygen because it's not burning. So you get overall lower EGT because the diesel fuel has all the available oxygen and doesn't have to share it with the meth.
So how does this play out in what a person "should" or "can" run?? Let's say we have three different CTDs, both wanting to run an injection system for pulling a 12K TT:
-- 1st truck is bone stock. Needs a little more power and maintain the same or slightly lower EGTs.
-- 2nd truck is mildly bombed (+60hp over stock)
-- 3rd truck is BIG bombed (+200hp over stock)
Truck one should run a high mix of meth (say 50-75%) to increase power and maintain or slightly lower EGT.
Truck two should run a lower mix of meth (15-50%) to focus more on temp reduction, and he's running more fuel (no room for as much meth)
Truck Three should run NO meth-- just water. He has a lot more fuel, and doesn't need any more power-- just a little more cooling.
**I'm Justin, and I approved this message**
that pretty much sums it up justin!
07-31-2006, 10:42 AM
#29
Registered User
One thing my friends who run the Snow system have pointed out to me is that the
-40° WW fluid they prefer isn't always available in the warmer southern states. Seems the mix is according to the expected low temperatures of the area.
Guess the moral is stock up when you are in the north.
-40° WW fluid they prefer isn't always available in the warmer southern states. Seems the mix is according to the expected low temperatures of the area.
Guess the moral is stock up when you are in the north.
07-31-2006, 12:13 PM
#30
Registered User
Originally Posted by infidel
the -40° WW fluid they prefer isn't always available in the warmer southern states.
Snow's is now selling premixed "Boost Juice", with 49% (?) meth. Struck me as a little on the expensive side.. with shipping, but has possibilities. Actually, it costs me about the same to mix my own...using Racing Meth (bought in 5 gal jugs)
http://snowperformance.net/products.asp?id=10
RJ