Need some more POWER!
03-06-2004, 01:47 PM
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Need some more POWER!
Hello guys. A newbe here, just tripped over your site... it's very impressive. Almost too much info here! With that being said, can you guys point me in the right direction since it will take me weeks to read all this info on your site?!?!
Seeking more power for my truck (97, CTD 2500, auto, 115,000 miles). I'm looking for the best bang for the buck and I'm not looking to build a "race truck". I really don't want to go crazy with the power because I know the auto trans is a weak link on my truck. So what's the best bang for the buck for under $300???
While doing some shopping online I found this:
http://www.tstproducts.com/power_kits_trial.htm
This "power kit" seems to be what I'm looking for. I was thinking of ordering the #6 plate kit (250/635, with video since I have never done this before). Has anyone ever used this product? If so, does it work? Can I find better prices elsewhere? Is there a better mod for under $300 for my all stock CTD?
TIA guys, like I said... awesome site!
Seeking more power for my truck (97, CTD 2500, auto, 115,000 miles). I'm looking for the best bang for the buck and I'm not looking to build a "race truck". I really don't want to go crazy with the power because I know the auto trans is a weak link on my truck. So what's the best bang for the buck for under $300???
While doing some shopping online I found this:
http://www.tstproducts.com/power_kits_trial.htm
This "power kit" seems to be what I'm looking for. I was thinking of ordering the #6 plate kit (250/635, with video since I have never done this before). Has anyone ever used this product? If so, does it work? Can I find better prices elsewhere? Is there a better mod for under $300 for my all stock CTD?
TIA guys, like I said... awesome site!
03-06-2004, 03:09 PM
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You probably won't find better prices anywhere. I personally have not dealt with TST but have heard nothing but praise for them. The first thing you would need to do is put gauges in your truck. You need a pyrometer and tranny temp at a minimum. Once you did that, then you could even slide your plate forward and pick up some extra ponies. Have you taken care of your dowel pin yet? If not, do a search for "dowel pin" and you will have tons of info. Another thing that you might want to check into is the timing. These p7100 pumps have a tapered shaft and have been known to retard themselves after a while. You can do a search on "timing" for info too.
BTW, Welcome to the site!!
Tom
P.S. You should fill in your sig so we know what help to give you.
BTW, Welcome to the site!!
Tom
P.S. You should fill in your sig so we know what help to give you.
03-07-2004, 02:22 PM
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03-07-2004, 10:04 PM
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Yeah, for starters slide your plate forward, and also your AFC housing, which covers the plate. The plate will give you more power, and the AFC will give you a bit more on the low end, and a nice shot of black smoke
It isn't that hard, MnTom helped me with mine
It isn't that hard, MnTom helped me with mine
03-08-2004, 08:37 PM
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Wet1, I bought my #5 plate(270/675) for my truck from TST and couldn't be happier with their product and service! Like you, I wasn't looking for a "race" truck, just more pulling power for my toy box. It definately did the trick, but like the others said, install the gauges first! Once you see how quickly the EGT's rise, you'll be glad you did! Call and talk to Mark at TST. He will answer all your questions and give some very good advice about not wasting serious cash on modifications that don't accomplish what they say they do. TST are very good people to deal with! If you have any more questions, I'll be glad to answer them for you.
03-09-2004, 05:13 AM
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If all you want to spend is $300 then you shouldn't be here. These guys are a bad influence on someone that has a set budget
. I hear they have some nice stuff in the automotive section in Wal-Mart though. Just kidding. Everyone goes at their own pace. As for me, I've totally lost it. See, there is this bug going around, and if you stay here long you will catch it. Seriously, $300 won't get you far, but it is a start. I would spend it on some guages first, if you ever plan on going to major power enhancements.
. I hear they have some nice stuff in the automotive section in Wal-Mart though. Just kidding. Everyone goes at their own pace. As for me, I've totally lost it. See, there is this bug going around, and if you stay here long you will catch it. Seriously, $300 won't get you far, but it is a start. I would spend it on some guages first, if you ever plan on going to major power enhancements.
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03-09-2004, 06:30 AM
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Blutic,
I know what you mean about getting the go fast bug. I have my mind set on NOT going crazy on my truck. I have plenty of heavily modified go fast toys (a 3.6 turbo Porsche 930 race car, a 67 Camaro RS/SS 396 4spd convt., a 124ci custom chopper, a jet boat, a 28' Skatter w/ twin OB's...) and I've gone crazy with mods on these other toys. I don't need a "race" truck, if I want to go fast I have other toys for doing that. I bought my truck for working. What I do want is a little bump in power for pulling the car trailer to distant tracks and traveling with the boats. I really have no desire to build a transmission eating money pit out of my truck, but rather a good reliable pulling truck.
Now if I can just keep that mind set.
Got to go to Wal-mart now...
I know what you mean about getting the go fast bug. I have my mind set on NOT going crazy on my truck. I have plenty of heavily modified go fast toys (a 3.6 turbo Porsche 930 race car, a 67 Camaro RS/SS 396 4spd convt., a 124ci custom chopper, a jet boat, a 28' Skatter w/ twin OB's...) and I've gone crazy with mods on these other toys. I don't need a "race" truck, if I want to go fast I have other toys for doing that. I bought my truck for working. What I do want is a little bump in power for pulling the car trailer to distant tracks and traveling with the boats. I really have no desire to build a transmission eating money pit out of my truck, but rather a good reliable pulling truck.
Now if I can just keep that mind set.
Got to go to Wal-mart now...
03-09-2004, 10:14 AM
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The #10 plate is more controllible and smoother for a torque curve than the #5 ive run both and following Jim Fulmer and Ricks suggestions I changed to the 10 slid about 2/3-3/4 forward with a set of 3k gov springs, and it pulls just as hard if not harder than the #5 but it doesnt have the violent fueling increase that the 5 is known for. Youll be able to control EGTs easily with the 10 and use more of your torque curve than if you were using the 5.
The 10 has Awsome Pulling power probably the best plate IMPO for towing, you could adjust it to right where your EGT's would start to over run 1250 and it provides the perfect low-midrange pulling curve.
Jim Proved that you can Throw the chart out the window on HP numbers with these plates, what is published and what they are capible of when used with the right combination of settings and parts are two completely different things.
As to the 6 it is also a good plate and for what you are wanting to do especially staying under budget the most bang for your buck.
Definately something to consider if it was me I would get a
1. #10 Plate $200
2. 3k gov spring kit $125
Latter on Look in to adding these, they are mild changes but they keep things in balance
HX35 hybrid 60mm $250 (if you send yours into to High Tech Turbo in utah and have them upgade your current 1)
14 or 16cm housing $350/$150 (Exhaust housing)
4" Exhaust $300
BHAF $60
And that is not going supper out of control on building power its a pretty mild setup that tows really well.
Irregardless of if you add power or not...... spend some money on GAUGES: Tranny temp, Pyrometer & Boost that way you can monitor your truck.
Good Luck
Dusty
The 10 has Awsome Pulling power probably the best plate IMPO for towing, you could adjust it to right where your EGT's would start to over run 1250 and it provides the perfect low-midrange pulling curve.
Jim Proved that you can Throw the chart out the window on HP numbers with these plates, what is published and what they are capible of when used with the right combination of settings and parts are two completely different things.
As to the 6 it is also a good plate and for what you are wanting to do especially staying under budget the most bang for your buck.
Definately something to consider if it was me I would get a
1. #10 Plate $200
2. 3k gov spring kit $125
Latter on Look in to adding these, they are mild changes but they keep things in balance
HX35 hybrid 60mm $250 (if you send yours into to High Tech Turbo in utah and have them upgade your current 1)
14 or 16cm housing $350/$150 (Exhaust housing)
4" Exhaust $300
BHAF $60
And that is not going supper out of control on building power its a pretty mild setup that tows really well.
Irregardless of if you add power or not...... spend some money on GAUGES: Tranny temp, Pyrometer & Boost that way you can monitor your truck.
Good Luck
Dusty
03-09-2004, 12:41 PM
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Well I just got off the phone with Mark @ TST. He said I'll likely fry my tranny with a #6 plate (or anything else even more agreasive) pulling a 7000 lb trailer. He suggested to stick to the #8 plate or do major tranny upgrades.
So what do you guys think? Anyone pull a 7000 lb+ trailer with a stock auto tranny and a fuel plate??? If so, what plate are you using and how long has the trans lasted?
"Definately something to consider if it was me I would get a
1. #10 Plate $200
2. 3k gov spring kit $125"
d-
My tranny is a major concern. I told Mark @ TST I was thinking of going with the #6 plate and a 3K gov spring. He suggested NOT to install the gov spring kit and asked why I wanted it. I told him that when pulling my 7000 lb trailer up long steep hills, I disengage the OD to save the tranny, but when I do so I can only go 60 mph because of gearing and the gov. He said I'm much better off leaving the trans in OD and lugging the engine. He said with the fuel plate I would be able to maintain the low rpm's in OD (which I can't do now because I run out of power) and I wouldn't need the gov spring kit. I'm worried this may cause the tranny to slip.
He also said if I do use the gov spring kit that I'd have to switch to a #4 plate because installing the gov spring kit causes the arm that "reads or feels" the fuel plate to relocate on the plate. He said if I installed the #6 plate and then later installed the gov spring kit that I'd lose most of the power I gained in the first place. ??? So what's the deal guys? I do know my truck falls on it's face after 2200 rpm as it is and it's **** hard to get it up to 2400-2500 rpm's, but I wouldn't need those rpm's if I had more power at lower rpm's...
I'm getting confussed!!! HELP.
Also, I think I'm going to order a 4" SS turbo back exhaust kit since my exhaust system is shot. It needs replacing so I might as well go 4" SS now and never have to think about it again.
So what do you guys think? Anyone pull a 7000 lb+ trailer with a stock auto tranny and a fuel plate??? If so, what plate are you using and how long has the trans lasted?
"Definately something to consider if it was me I would get a
1. #10 Plate $200
2. 3k gov spring kit $125"
d-
My tranny is a major concern. I told Mark @ TST I was thinking of going with the #6 plate and a 3K gov spring. He suggested NOT to install the gov spring kit and asked why I wanted it. I told him that when pulling my 7000 lb trailer up long steep hills, I disengage the OD to save the tranny, but when I do so I can only go 60 mph because of gearing and the gov. He said I'm much better off leaving the trans in OD and lugging the engine. He said with the fuel plate I would be able to maintain the low rpm's in OD (which I can't do now because I run out of power) and I wouldn't need the gov spring kit. I'm worried this may cause the tranny to slip.
He also said if I do use the gov spring kit that I'd have to switch to a #4 plate because installing the gov spring kit causes the arm that "reads or feels" the fuel plate to relocate on the plate. He said if I installed the #6 plate and then later installed the gov spring kit that I'd lose most of the power I gained in the first place. ??? So what's the deal guys? I do know my truck falls on it's face after 2200 rpm as it is and it's **** hard to get it up to 2400-2500 rpm's, but I wouldn't need those rpm's if I had more power at lower rpm's...I'm getting confussed!!! HELP.
Also, I think I'm going to order a 4" SS turbo back exhaust kit since my exhaust system is shot. It needs replacing so I might as well go 4" SS now and never have to think about it again.
03-09-2004, 01:17 PM
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The 8 is not that bad but it does have some peaks and valleys, the 10 is a single smooth transition through a half moon shape, allowing for steady torque and hp numbers that will not surge fuel curves in and out. with the 10 you can slide it back and still hoover in the 230hp 550 ft/lbs? i think that was right around where it was at full back.
as to the 3k gov spring kit it helps with the symptoms that you are describing the defueling that occurs at about 2100. Using the 8 and the 10 plates with the gov spring eliminates the defueling problem in the midrange (i didnt loose any power). Slid back, The hp gains arent huge much but like you said your tranny is a concern.
Plan on saving up for tranny upgades, even pulling like you are it will become an issue someday.
Honestly send jim fulmer a PM, he is really helpful when picking out plates he recommended the 10 when no one else would and know the tricks to tuning these things beyond what most people understand. like i said there is alot more to this game with a simple little tuning, so throw the chart out the window on hp numbers what you are looking for is a plate that can me moved up as you decide to increase hp yet offer conservative numbers in the begining to save your tranny and offer a smooth power curve for towing.
BTW: Mark told me i was nuts when i first started asking about ordering up the #10 w/ Gov springs for my 180hp 12 valve motor he said it wouldnt be much of a gain nothing like my 5 was giving me. he said it would only net 30-40 hp probably be putting me in the low 200's. He is very knowledgible but Its all based on the location of the plate since it slides for gov arm ramp travel and the profiles of these things in the end where and how you want the power to come on and then if you want it to start to tapper off.
Where are you located if you're near Northern California or Reno Let me know PM, I might be able to let you try a couple of plates.
Dusty
as to the 3k gov spring kit it helps with the symptoms that you are describing the defueling that occurs at about 2100. Using the 8 and the 10 plates with the gov spring eliminates the defueling problem in the midrange (i didnt loose any power). Slid back, The hp gains arent huge much but like you said your tranny is a concern.
Plan on saving up for tranny upgades, even pulling like you are it will become an issue someday.
Honestly send jim fulmer a PM, he is really helpful when picking out plates he recommended the 10 when no one else would and know the tricks to tuning these things beyond what most people understand. like i said there is alot more to this game with a simple little tuning, so throw the chart out the window on hp numbers what you are looking for is a plate that can me moved up as you decide to increase hp yet offer conservative numbers in the begining to save your tranny and offer a smooth power curve for towing.
BTW: Mark told me i was nuts when i first started asking about ordering up the #10 w/ Gov springs for my 180hp 12 valve motor he said it wouldnt be much of a gain nothing like my 5 was giving me. he said it would only net 30-40 hp probably be putting me in the low 200's. He is very knowledgible but Its all based on the location of the plate since it slides for gov arm ramp travel and the profiles of these things in the end where and how you want the power to come on and then if you want it to start to tapper off.
Where are you located if you're near Northern California or Reno Let me know PM, I might be able to let you try a couple of plates.
Dusty
03-09-2004, 01:31 PM
#13
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I'm sure Mark @ TST knows what he's talking about, but.... I put a #8 plate in and 3 days later a 3K gov kit. I didn't notice a loss in power. I only had the truck for 2 weeks before I did this so maybe I had the "new truck, new power" *******.
The governor lever is adjustable. Go here http://www.piersdiesel.com/TechLeverAdj.htm As far as what plate to use, the guys at Piers advised me to go to a #10 after I installed 215HP injectors or slide my #8 back a bit. The #10 plate is supposed to control high RPM EGT's better than an 8 or 6 and be a bit easier on the trans.
My advice would be to try a 10 plate and adjust it for the best power/EGT control. Sliding it forward will surprise you with the "free" power. If you find you still need more, then put the gov kit in.
The governor lever is adjustable. Go here http://www.piersdiesel.com/TechLeverAdj.htm As far as what plate to use, the guys at Piers advised me to go to a #10 after I installed 215HP injectors or slide my #8 back a bit. The #10 plate is supposed to control high RPM EGT's better than an 8 or 6 and be a bit easier on the trans.
My advice would be to try a 10 plate and adjust it for the best power/EGT control. Sliding it forward will surprise you with the "free" power. If you find you still need more, then put the gov kit in.
03-10-2004, 06:12 AM
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Wonderful info guys.
How does the plate numbering system work? Is it as simple as the lower the number, the more aggressive the plate? Are they all "mapped" the same, just different levels of "dish or cup" to the plate?
How does the plate numbering system work? Is it as simple as the lower the number, the more aggressive the plate? Are they all "mapped" the same, just different levels of "dish or cup" to the plate?