Mythbusting #1: "You need more fuel to spool that thing"
#16
900-1100 is good, in my opinion. Your keeping all the build up burned off the valve train. These engines are made to run at that temp for hours on end. You can find some info that states lower temps can actually hurt performance and longevity when ran for long periods.
From my personal experience: I thought my truck ran good. I putted around with it, never getting EGT's over 850 or so for about 6 months. Then I hooked on to 15k lbs and towed it threw the hills in the MO Ozarks. Temps stayed above 1000 almost the entire trip. When I got home and unhooked the trailer, the truck felt way better than before. Of course it felt faster without 15k in tow, but it idled smoother and got better fuel mileage afterwards. I have seen the same results from just 5 or 6 hard dyno pulls. I'm now a firm believer in higher exhaust temps.
From my personal experience: I thought my truck ran good. I putted around with it, never getting EGT's over 850 or so for about 6 months. Then I hooked on to 15k lbs and towed it threw the hills in the MO Ozarks. Temps stayed above 1000 almost the entire trip. When I got home and unhooked the trailer, the truck felt way better than before. Of course it felt faster without 15k in tow, but it idled smoother and got better fuel mileage afterwards. I have seen the same results from just 5 or 6 hard dyno pulls. I'm now a firm believer in higher exhaust temps.
#17
Like was said, 900-1100 isn't that bad. I was pushing 900 on flat ground yesterday empty with the A/C on, 1000 going up hills. The bigger the turbo, the hotter it is gonna run when not running hard.
#18
so i am running a silver bullet 66/74/14 with jammer 4's. i had a 57/68 non wastegated turbo on before and it didnt perform half as good as the silver bullet. the lag is not even that different from the smaller turbo and egts never get over 1300 but with the 57/68 i could see 1600 easy. why is that???but i must say this living at sea level makes a difference as well... i took my truck to lake tahoe and i had to manually shift the whole time while getting on the freeways. im going to run a set of injectors rated at around 175-200hp.
#19
Powermad-
until you cross boost threshold you are running a naturally aspirated engine. This engine will react to altitude and temperature. And as a rule of thumb you can assume that 1 hp on the crankshaft equals 0.5 hp in exhaust gas that can be recovered(different for each engine and varies across the rpm and load range). The boost threshold is the point where there is enough energy in the exhaust to get the turbo spooled, and this number is different for each kind of turbo.
That's why you needed to wind out your engine at high altitude- get enough hp from the NA engine to have enough exhaust energy to spool.
If you now take a very big turbo and slap it on a stock engine you get into a situation where the NA horsepower is not enough to put out enough exhaust to even spool this turbo. Since we can not rev the CTD due to the camshaft (that is there for NA low end grunt and relies on the turbo for higher rpms) we need more fuel to make more exhaust.
As we know, much fuel and little air gives high EGT- so until you are out of NA land you have high egts- after boost threshold the turbo spools to say 15 psig and suddenly you have approx double the air in the jug, double the exhaust mass but, since we still inject the same amount of fuel, the same energy-resulting in lower temperature.
Since we have some boundaries like 1200F sustained EGT the problem is that if we do not reach enough exhaust hp to spool before hitting this boundary we have a NA engine that is gutless. So at high altitude (look at the SAE correction factors for gassers) the available power in NA mode can be so low that even the stock turbo has a hard time spooling.
With an auto tranny that does not take altitude and outside air pressure info to adjust the shift points (the Dodge ignores these parameters) you can fall outside the safe operation parameters.
I hope I did not oversimplify, this is to be considered as "rule of thumb" for turbo diesels.
I have been working on a project to reduce emissions of excavators and other machinery in the Austrian Alps at high altitude for some years. So in our case simply adding fuel would not work, we do not want to paint our glaciers black
Just my 2c
AlpineRAM
until you cross boost threshold you are running a naturally aspirated engine. This engine will react to altitude and temperature. And as a rule of thumb you can assume that 1 hp on the crankshaft equals 0.5 hp in exhaust gas that can be recovered(different for each engine and varies across the rpm and load range). The boost threshold is the point where there is enough energy in the exhaust to get the turbo spooled, and this number is different for each kind of turbo.
That's why you needed to wind out your engine at high altitude- get enough hp from the NA engine to have enough exhaust energy to spool.
If you now take a very big turbo and slap it on a stock engine you get into a situation where the NA horsepower is not enough to put out enough exhaust to even spool this turbo. Since we can not rev the CTD due to the camshaft (that is there for NA low end grunt and relies on the turbo for higher rpms) we need more fuel to make more exhaust.
As we know, much fuel and little air gives high EGT- so until you are out of NA land you have high egts- after boost threshold the turbo spools to say 15 psig and suddenly you have approx double the air in the jug, double the exhaust mass but, since we still inject the same amount of fuel, the same energy-resulting in lower temperature.
Since we have some boundaries like 1200F sustained EGT the problem is that if we do not reach enough exhaust hp to spool before hitting this boundary we have a NA engine that is gutless. So at high altitude (look at the SAE correction factors for gassers) the available power in NA mode can be so low that even the stock turbo has a hard time spooling.
With an auto tranny that does not take altitude and outside air pressure info to adjust the shift points (the Dodge ignores these parameters) you can fall outside the safe operation parameters.
I hope I did not oversimplify, this is to be considered as "rule of thumb" for turbo diesels.
I have been working on a project to reduce emissions of excavators and other machinery in the Austrian Alps at high altitude for some years. So in our case simply adding fuel would not work, we do not want to paint our glaciers black
Just my 2c
AlpineRAM
#20
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Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,564
Likes: 6
From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
PM-- are those EGT numbers WOT, cruising, or what? *If it's WOT, it makes perfect sense for the smaller turbo to have higher EGT-- it's delivering less air when up on boost.
A compound "twin" really helps with thin air.
A compound "twin" really helps with thin air.
so i am running a silver bullet 66/74/14 with jammer 4's. i had a 57/68 non wastegated turbo on before and it didnt perform half as good as the silver bullet. the lag is not even that different from the smaller turbo and egts never get over 1300 but with the 57/68 i could see 1600 easy. why is that???but i must say this living at sea level makes a difference as well... i took my truck to lake tahoe and i had to manually shift the whole time while getting on the freeways. im going to run a set of injectors rated at around 175-200hp.
#21
.. When I got home and unhooked the trailer, the truck felt way better than before. Of course it felt faster without 15k in tow, but it idled smoother and got better fuel mileage afterwards. I have seen the same results from just 5 or 6 hard dyno pulls. I'm now a firm believer in higher exhaust temps.
But every so often, and on a regular basis, it's a good idea to work the CTD hard.
RJ
#23
yes hohn that is wot. i feel as though getting such a large charger has caused me to daily drive my truck better. my egts cruising around town are around 600 tops. when they used to be in the 750-800* area. the spool up isnt bad as long as you either roll the throttle till 12 psi or 1800rpms then i can punch it and it goes to 42psi faster then i can blink! from my experience the smaller charger with my injectors was a bad choice. egts were out of control no matter what i did. now i dont really look at the egt gauge. and driving it is no problem at all. i am going to be getting larger injectors but at this point the truck really is fast as heck without them and smoke isnt bad either.
#24
yes hohn that is wot. i feel as though getting such a large charger has caused me to daily drive my truck better. my egts cruising around town are around 600 tops. when they used to be in the 750-800* area. the spool up isnt bad as long as you either roll the throttle till 12 psi or 1800rpms then i can punch it and it goes to 42psi faster then i can blink! from my experience the smaller charger with my injectors was a bad choice. egts were out of control no matter what i did. now i dont really look at the egt gauge. and driving it is no problem at all. i am going to be getting larger injectors but at this point the truck really is fast as heck without them and smoke isnt bad either.
#25
yes hohn that is wot. i feel as though getting such a large charger has caused me to daily drive my truck better. my egts cruising around town are around 600 tops. when they used to be in the 750-800* area. the spool up isnt bad as long as you either roll the throttle till 12 psi or 1800rpms then i can punch it and it goes to 42psi faster then i can blink! from my experience the smaller charger with my injectors was a bad choice. egts were out of control no matter what i did. now i dont really look at the egt gauge. and driving it is no problem at all. i am going to be getting larger injectors but at this point the truck really is fast as heck without them and smoke isnt bad either.
Do you have an extremly loose converter and low gears? I have to admit, your one of the few that have said the SB66/74 was great for daily driving. Have you ever attempted to tow with your setup? Glad to hear you like what you have, but I just couldn't live with the power band over 2200rpm. I like things to get spooled quick, even if that means it's done at the time yours is just spooling up.
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