I've got a set of Piers towing twins and I need a bigger injector will the EGTs be insane with mach 6 or with they be ok, the truck is a 99 but not the one in my signature and i'll have a Catcher but not the edge comp.

 

I'd go with the Edge comp first. But that's just me. The twins should hold the 6's.

 

http://turbodieselregistry.com/forum...d.php?t=122681

This what this guy had to say about Mach 6's





I want to go with a mach 6 or a similar injector, but from from what this guy had to say about them I am having second thoughts. JR makes a wicked injector. I have seen dyno sheets that are proof. Over 500 RWHP WITHOUT a fueling box.


Justin

 

What are your goals for HP and what will you do with it. Tow heavy? You may not need a 6. 600 HP is possibe with twins and Mach 5.


Justin,

500 HP with injectors only was passed two seasons ago. Two different sets of the "wicked injectors" you spoke of actually broke off in people engines. I dont recommend anything personally until it is tested to work. No matter who builds it. I have posted on countless threads that stock Bosch injectors cant be EDM modified without these types of failures eventually happening. The TDR and DTR are replet with evidence that EDM modified stock nozzles will fail and do not work.

All Mach injectors were designed around a new part, stronger and thicker in critical areas to deal with these kinds of troubles. They dont break off in enngines and they are totally driveable. The "wicked ones" you speak of are not street driveable.

Don~

 

Don,

Do you have a link for either websites about the tip failures??? (DTR/TDR) What about a picture of a "broke tip" injector.

I would think that is Diesel Dynamics sells an EDM injector they would stand behind their product??


Justin

 

I did not say they were DD. They were not.

I was contacted when both the above mentioned sets failed. One of the engines was bore scoped and the piece was embedded into the piston top. The other engines injectors were just replaced with another injector that wont fail.

There are actually more sets than this...plenty more and aven one that melted down. Hey its high performance and failures will happen, but a stock style injector that is EDM modified is just asking for it.

We currently have over 600 sets of Machs out there. None have broken a tip off. Even after a long and drawn out back and forth with internet armchair experts on the dangers of failed EDM injectors. We dont use a stock style tip and the strength is higher by a 300% safety factor.

Don~

 

I don't really plan on pulling much but I would like an injector I won't have to upgrade I might even go with a hx-40 on top if things are real hot but I can't do it all at once, I talked to Rip and he had a 40 with an ht3b with an edge comp and mach 6s and he said it would get pretty warm at the end of the drag strip but I don't plan on driving around wide open all the time I just don't won't to have to watch egts like a hawk, I do plan on upgrading the top turbo the stock 35 was already pretty sick

 

Yes, very true. At the end of the track the EGT can exceed 1550 with 6's. Perhaps higher, but this is with the COMP box on kill. Injectors alone wont get hot at all. Even towing, but I dont normally tell anyone to tow with 6's. It is being done though.



Rip will shoot you straight!

Don~

 

With the mach6/40/b2 setup i've only seen 1500+ once. This was because the top boot blew off. The highest I've seen it spike in the last year is 1280 and it settles to < 1100 after the initial spike. The video from the dyno runs is in my sig if you're interested.

Failed Aftermarket Injector threads:
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...pic/82828.html
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...pic/91311.html

I have pulled a light 26' camper to Muncie last year (3 hours) over flat ground with 6's. The EGTs weren't out of the ordinary, but the coolant temp moved past 165F for the first time since I've owned my truck! I wouldn't recommend towing a bunch with them in the hills.

brandon.

 

Past 165* or 195*? 165* sure seems awful cold to me.

 

Wow, that was 16 months ago. Man, how time flys! Thanks Brandon. Many more have failed since then. There are plenty that never get talked about.

Since then just about every injector expert on here has been convinced that EDM was the proper process to use to form spray holes in seat hole/type nozzles. Unfortunantly every manufacturer has already said they use the EDM process. Two strikes against long term durability for a high performance engine. This is old school technology that worked fine in the low injection pressure days of under 10,000 PSI. The first gens used a nozzle that was drilled using the EDM process.

ECM is the only acceptable process for highly loaded injection nozzles. Certain lasers can be used nowdays as well. ECM is electrochemical machining and has no thermal impact on the machined part. It does not have localized harding of the upper layers of steel like the EDM causes.

The sac nozzles are exclusive to F1 in the Cummins and can be drilled using EDM processes. The seat is not carrying the load of the needle banging against it. Making it loaded much lower. EDM is widely used for sac style nozzles. Another benefit is if there is a tip failure with a sac stlye nozzle the needle still remains able to seal the high pressure fuel and not allow it to dump into the engine. With a seat nozzle failure you get serious amounts of raw fuel being dumped into the engine.

If anyone would like to read the technical end of the whole mess, get the book published from Bosch on modern day fuel injection systems called Diesel Engine Management. It is very clear on the proper methods of hole forming for different load limits. Injection pressure and engine speed has increased in the last few years so the need for higher strength is going up too.

So grab the ebay nozzles as fast as you can to save some money NOT!!


Don~

 

What kind of guarantee do you give when someone buys a set of Mach 6's. I know that when you buy a drag comp, or a tst comp and loose a VP they are not going to fit the bill.

Are you making guys sign waivers or have any "fine print" at the bottom that limits your liability?

I agree with your "don't bore more holes in a stock edm tip"

You CAN use edm to "clean up" a stock bosch 275. NOT to bore more holes, just to clean it up.

Last time i heard that is what DD is doing to their jammers.


Justin

 

Justin,

It is impossible to clean up holes the sizes we are talking about in the RV nozzle using EDM. And NO you cant do it safely. For your information...there is no way to make a smooth or cleaned up hole with EDM on any surface of steel without an ultra low power setting and this methods adds costly time to machining. You would end up with a part that costs 500 bucks each to get it correct. And you would still have the thermal impact that EDM imparts into steel. In a highly stressed part, you just dont do it.

DD does not do this. That is pure rumor. They know it does not work.

Don~

 

So would the Mach 6s be ok with out running a box on all the time Like I said I will need another top turbo mine has small dings or chips in the compressor wheel I might as well get a little bigger turbo if I going through the trouble but I just don't want to buy a part now and change it down the road because I want a little morebut if I xcan't control the egts without the box on and a 35 on top I will have to go smaller because I can't buy everything at once

 

Do you pick-up any additional power running a hot rod VP44 pump running the mach 6 injectors? Piers told me that I would pick-up 40-50rwhp over a stock pump. They also told me to use larger injectors tubing lines. Has anybody used a race P pump on these injectors for the 24v engine?