Dodge Demon

www.solidsteel.biz

HOHN

If I would have known about the Thuren bar when I bought my DT, then I would have gone the Thuren route. I don't think it was even out when I did my truck, though.

My DT bar has been great, and I like that's it's straight and beefy. Only gripe was the mounting bracket wanted to come loose. I tightened everything down with Loctite Red, and so far all is well. I'm suspicious that it will come loose again, and only be cured by welding it.

Wish me luck finding someone willing to weld on the frame...

jlh

Cowhand

Justin,

It's not that bad. Have 'em throw a couple stitch welds on the track bar boss and the crossmember....you should be fine.

getblown5.9

Ok well looks like i will eventually be getting a thuren fab set-up and a DSS, but i need a temporary fix for the next few weeks until i have the money. its so annoying to feel the clunking in the steering wheel of the track bar end sliding up and down.

will the $60 lukes link give me temp relief from the clucking of a loose tie rod end of the track bar?

WildBill

no offense to the Thuren fans, but is there no dust boot setup on the frame mount end of the track bar? Last time I checked, dirt and grit in a ball socket equals wear. Also the ball socket is not centered when bolted to the truck, is this an issue? Seems like it should be centered or it could put undue stress on it.

Lil Dog

Personally I don't see how that setup is "better" than the 03 setup from Darin. As it was said before an open ball socket design is just asking for dirt and water ingestion for wear? I would call you on the replacement comment.

I would like you to point out to me what fails on the 03 track bar... If you want upgraded bushing from the OEM, just get Darins adjustable bar. It has "other" material for the bushings. So far for me I have only 40,000 Km on this bar.

IMHO having 2 bushing is way better than a ball socket. Getting rid of the ball socket was the whole reason I went this way instead of a LL or Thuren.. The same failure mode for the socket applies to all the Hiem joint designs too.

Cowhand

Not so....the FK rod ends that Don uses are teflon lined. They have a "wiper" seal that keeps dirt and whatnot out of the wear surfaces. Same with the uniball on the frame end. The uniball is also greasable, adjustable (so it can be tightened to compensate for wear) and it's rebuildable. The problem with the factory ball joint is that it relies on spring pressure to keep the ball centered in the seat. Once the spring loses tension from fatigue or wear in the seat, you end up with play in the joint. It can't be adjusted out.

Another reason why it's a better design: on the stock replacement, the uniball bolts directly to the frame boss. No bracket required. The lifted track bar bracket WELDS to the frame. The bracket on my SJ track bar moved. Most of the guys on pavementsuck.com that run the DT bar have had their brackets move. Justin's bracket moves. They all move eventually. That's why everybody is putting a few stitch welds on to hold them in place. A bolted bracket is just an inferior way to attach the track bar to the frame.

What fails on the 03 bar is the factory rubber bushings. They are way too soft for a steering application. Once the bushings soften up, it allows play in the track bar. Even as little as 1/8" will set up the death wobble. As far as Darin's adjustable bar, last I heard it cost more than the Thuren or even the DT setup. It's also missing a jam nut on one side of the adjustment.

Maybe I'm screwed up, maybe the 03 track bar is the answer to all your front end problems. If that's the case, I have to wonder why Don Thuren has so many folks calling him for 03+ track bar replacements.

As far as the heims suffering the same failure mode as the ball joints.....so far my heims have lasted a lot longer than the factory TRE's did....

Lil Dog

Well I guess if you are building a rock crawler, thats fine.

If I was serious into offroad, I would weld the bracket to the frame..That I agree. And the other "bushings" in the front end would get the same treatment. Welding isn't always the solution to frame problems. Once you weld, something else has to be the weak link, you have to plan it. Do I feel that I need to do that for my application? No.

But for the rest of us that don't lift it 6", put on 38" tires and ram-rod through the bush the 03TBK seems fine. The comment on the bushings I can handle, as can DC apparently. But when replacing the OEM track bar it was for the ball joint not for the bushings at the other end. The required lateral control is not zero for any of the solid axle 4X4's out there, well neither is the IFS of GM. They all have some lateral movement. Vibration control is one of the reasons.

Each to their own. I just don't agree with calling the 03TBK trash. The ball joint system isn't infalable. The open exposure of the surface of the ball to the elements isn't instantly controled by the seal and wiper. Once the ball gets pitted from being hard coated with salt contamination, oil, etc the wiper won't help. It may be better than the OEM style, but exposure to the elements is just not acceptable to me.

The HIEMS can't take side load, so alignment it critical if you want to utilize those joints. The force plane has to be through the centerline of the ball and socket.

There are alternatives to all products, so whatever you figure is the best, works. Even if wall can't agree on the best, the OEM SUCKS...

BigBlue

A word of advice on the lukes link and 4 wheeling. I did some wheeling this weekend and removed the front sway bar to help flex the suspension a little bit. Today I noticed a clunk in my front end. Went down there to inspect it and found that the upper gasket of the lukes link was trashed and there was a 1/4-3/8" gap between the track bar and the bracket. Still no death wobble though. As soon as I get my paycheck this week I'm gonna order a new track bar. Still haven't decided if I'm gonna go with a stock replacement or 03 track bar. I'd like to do the DT bar but that's a big chunk of change to spend. I don't wheel my truck that often so I think the 03 might be the way to go.

Cowhand

I'm not building a rockcrawler, I set mine up for running fast over the rough stuff. Even folks with primarily street driven trucks are having problems with bolt on brackets. If you want to make the track bar bracket the weak link in your front end, knock yourself out. Scary. In this case, welding is always the solution to attaching something as critical as a track bar bracket to the frame. The factory bracket is welded, isn't it?

Stands to reason if a part will take the added stress of a lift, larger tires, and off road abuse without failure, it's probably over-engineered for use with no lift and smaller tires. Personally, I'd rather have too much than not enough. I would agree that all solid axle front ends have lateral movement, the question here is how much. The point is to get as little as possible. Vibration control is secondary to preventing lateral movement. The factory uses rubber instead of poly because it's cheap.

Wait until you spend some time and money chasing a death wobble that won't go away. I'd bet money you'll change your mind on what constitutes acceptable lateral movement.

I'm not knocking it because the uniball is infallible, I'm knocking it because I hate to see folks spend money on something they'll end up replacing again. The 03 track bars are going bad...if they didn't, why would replacements be available? If the factory bushing is acceptable, why did Darin put a higher durometer bushing in his adjustable bar?

You're right on with both statements. The heims in my front end are all axially loaded. So far they've lasted longer than the factory or Moog tie rod ends I've used in the past. The heims are also a little cheaper to replace than the TRE's. I can completely rebuild my track bar for $45.

And yes, there are alternatives. I've done a boatload of research over the last year and a half, and I'm simply passing on what I have learned by talking to fabricators, personal trial and error, and experiences other folks have had. I don't have a grudge against Darin, or Marv, or their products. I have the DSS, I think it's one of the best things I've done to the front end. I just don't think that the 03TBK is the long term answer to curing/preventing the death wobble. I would compare the 2nd/3rd gen track bar to the 47/48RE trans. Is it an improvement? Yes. Did it solve all the problems? No......

I'm not saying Thuren's stuff is the only way to go either.....DT is coming out with a new and improved track bar soon, as well as some complete suspension kits that will compete with the KORE stuff and outperform anything else out there.

Lil Dog

All good points Cowhand...

I already said aloud that if the SS track bar was available at the time I upgraded to the 03TBK, I would have done it. I wasn't aware at the time that there was a bar in the works. Just for the bushing reasons you stated, I had asked about a Poly bushing kit for the 03 TB and that is just not available yet by any of the suspension groups I have contacted.

I can't dispute the bushing wear, but I feel the ball/socket has some similar failure potential that needs to be addressed.

If the instructions for the 03TBK said to weld the bracket, would that make you feel better?

Bobcat698

Talk to Marv at http://www.solidsteel.ca

There IS a difference. Marv actually answers the phone and solidsteel.biz offers the same stuff because they used to be partners.

Mcmopar

There was a thread a while back talking about either Darin or Marv having a fittment issue? Does anyone have any info on that?

Cowhand

IIRC, the 03 bushings are molded in. You probably won't find aftermarket poly or poly-nylon hybrid bushings for it. It's made to be replaced as a unit when the bushings go.

Yeah, if the instructions said weld I would feel better - about the bracket.

I all honesty, I would have felt the same way about the uniball (being it's basically the same configuration as the stock joint) except for one thing....I can tighten it up if it gets loose and rebuild it if it wears out.

Don't mean to get anybody wound up....I just wanna share what I know works. I paid retail cash money on the barrel head for all my stuff, so all I get is the satisfaction that I gave someone good advice.

That's plenty enough for me.....

Gear Poet

33K miles on the bracket and the '03 trackbar replacement. Half my driving is off-pavement, a fair amount on trails.

Bracket hasn't moved, trackbar and bushings look new, no slop with the usual tests.

We'll see, I guess.