Are K&N's really that bad?
10-20-2005, 09:05 AM
#16
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WideOpenThrottl,
Here's a filter test done on Duramax stock intake filters that show why a lot of folks are negative about K&N, in reality it is the same for ANY 4 layer gauze filter without regard to brand names. The test is very relative in that this was done by a filter test lab, under a controlled enviroment. The fact that it is a Duramax filter that is being tested is irrellevant as the test results will be the same for a Dodge filter under the same test conditions. Be sure to read carefully as some of the brand names are not the same filter you might buy that has a two stage design or whatever etc.
Group: Diesel Addict
Joined: 04 December 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 302 The following is the complete test results. In order of rank from BEST performance to WORST in the categories of FILTERING EFFICIENCY, FLOW RESTRICTION, DIRT HOLDING CAPACITY and TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING TEST.
SPICER wrote:
In the order of filtering efficiency the results are:
FILTER % Efficiency
AC Delco OE 99.93%
Baldwin 99.72%
No name filter (made for gas engine, 1/3 less pleats) 99.32%
AFE ProGuard 7 (73-10062), panel filter 99.23%
WIX/Napa 99.03%
Purolator 98.73%
Amsoil, new style 98.63%
UNI 97.93%
K&N 96.80%
FLOW RESTRICTION FROM BEST TO WORST:
FILTER RESTRICTION in Inches H2O
K&N 4.54
Mystery bargain filter 4.78
AFE Pro Guard 7 Panel 4.99
Purolator 5.05
WIX/Napa 5.06
UNI 5.40
Baldwin 5.71
Amsoil 5.88
AC Delco 6.23
TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING THE TEST. This is how much dirt your engine will take in if you use the filter for the duration that would cause the filter to become "dirty" enough to need replacement or cleaning. The "Dirt Passing The Filter" is the dirt collected by the "Post Filter" during the test.
FILTER DIRT IN GRAMS PASSED
AC Delco 0.4 g
Baldwin 1.1g
AFE Pro Guard 7 1.8g
Mystery Bargain 2.4g
Amsoil 2.7g
WIX/Napa 4.4g
Purolator 5.0g
K&N 6.0g
UNI 7.9g
Note: The Purolator was reported to have a seal malfunction during the test and passed more dirt than it would have with a good seal.
Interesting. SPICER
On Edit:
If you look at the intake tube an dwipe it out and don't see dirt you're fooling yourself. Dirt will flow past a smooth clean surface as there is nothing to "catch" it! Wipe in a thin layer of heavy grease in a 3 x 3 area in that tube and run 8-10,000 miles and then wipe your fingers thru the grease ans then between two fingers, if it's passing dirt you'll feel it. Then think fo the dirt that got past the grease and down the throat of your engine. I have done this test literally 100's of times on Power Strokes, they have a crankcase vent just before the turbo that leaves a desposit of oil in the intake tube and it has NEVER failed to reveal a large amount of dirt that has collected there no matter what brand of 4 layer gauze filter you use.
This and other tests I have seen are the reason we ONLY sell AFE Pro Guard 7 products at DPPI.
Mark @ DPPI
Here's a filter test done on Duramax stock intake filters that show why a lot of folks are negative about K&N, in reality it is the same for ANY 4 layer gauze filter without regard to brand names. The test is very relative in that this was done by a filter test lab, under a controlled enviroment. The fact that it is a Duramax filter that is being tested is irrellevant as the test results will be the same for a Dodge filter under the same test conditions. Be sure to read carefully as some of the brand names are not the same filter you might buy that has a two stage design or whatever etc.
Group: Diesel Addict
Joined: 04 December 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 302 The following is the complete test results. In order of rank from BEST performance to WORST in the categories of FILTERING EFFICIENCY, FLOW RESTRICTION, DIRT HOLDING CAPACITY and TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING TEST.
SPICER wrote:
In the order of filtering efficiency the results are:
FILTER % Efficiency
AC Delco OE 99.93%
Baldwin 99.72%
No name filter (made for gas engine, 1/3 less pleats) 99.32%
AFE ProGuard 7 (73-10062), panel filter 99.23%
WIX/Napa 99.03%
Purolator 98.73%
Amsoil, new style 98.63%
UNI 97.93%
K&N 96.80%
FLOW RESTRICTION FROM BEST TO WORST:
FILTER RESTRICTION in Inches H2O
K&N 4.54
Mystery bargain filter 4.78
AFE Pro Guard 7 Panel 4.99
Purolator 5.05
WIX/Napa 5.06
UNI 5.40
Baldwin 5.71
Amsoil 5.88
AC Delco 6.23
TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING THE TEST. This is how much dirt your engine will take in if you use the filter for the duration that would cause the filter to become "dirty" enough to need replacement or cleaning. The "Dirt Passing The Filter" is the dirt collected by the "Post Filter" during the test.
FILTER DIRT IN GRAMS PASSED
AC Delco 0.4 g
Baldwin 1.1g
AFE Pro Guard 7 1.8g
Mystery Bargain 2.4g
Amsoil 2.7g
WIX/Napa 4.4g
Purolator 5.0g
K&N 6.0g
UNI 7.9g
Note: The Purolator was reported to have a seal malfunction during the test and passed more dirt than it would have with a good seal.
Interesting. SPICER
On Edit:
If you look at the intake tube an dwipe it out and don't see dirt you're fooling yourself. Dirt will flow past a smooth clean surface as there is nothing to "catch" it! Wipe in a thin layer of heavy grease in a 3 x 3 area in that tube and run 8-10,000 miles and then wipe your fingers thru the grease ans then between two fingers, if it's passing dirt you'll feel it. Then think fo the dirt that got past the grease and down the throat of your engine. I have done this test literally 100's of times on Power Strokes, they have a crankcase vent just before the turbo that leaves a desposit of oil in the intake tube and it has NEVER failed to reveal a large amount of dirt that has collected there no matter what brand of 4 layer gauze filter you use.
This and other tests I have seen are the reason we ONLY sell AFE Pro Guard 7 products at DPPI.
Mark @ DPPI
10-20-2005, 09:17 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by oestreich84
Before I bought my truck, the previous owner only used the stock replacement air filters. When I bought it, I put in a k&n air filter and straight piped the exhaust. In less than 3 months I noticed that there was an oil film on the inlet to the turbo, and on the blades. About a month later I checked again, and it was much worse. Dirt and dust was collecting and starting to build up. I removed the k&n, cleaned the turbo inlet and compressor wheel the best I could and put on a BHAF. Since then I have put on about 20,000 miles and it still looks the same as the day I cleaned them off. I now know not to run an oiled K&N filter on my truck. Just my .02
10-20-2005, 09:25 AM
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It simple...
If you can hold up the element and see holes in the media... That means that dirt can pass through it. Now you put this on a CTD that is sucking huge amounts of air...
Whats the chances of dirt getting through those holes? (Pretty good in my book...)
Go with paper element your safer... If you want air go with BHAF or ask HOHN (another member) what he's running...
If you can hold up the element and see holes in the media... That means that dirt can pass through it. Now you put this on a CTD that is sucking huge amounts of air...
Whats the chances of dirt getting through those holes? (Pretty good in my book...)
Go with paper element your safer... If you want air go with BHAF or ask HOHN (another member) what he's running...
10-20-2005, 09:29 AM
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Possibly, but not likely. Oiled-gauze filters letting oil AND dust into the turbo and engine is a well-documented occurence on CTDs-- certainly a lot more common than leaky turbo seals.
With air filters, you have have to choose two of three qualities: flow, filtration efficiency, or size. You get a filter that fits, and it won't filter well if it flows. You get a filter that fits and it won't flow well if it filters well. You find one the flows well AND filters, only to find that it won't fit.
So you have to pick what's "good enough" for you. Most performance enthusiast sacrifice filtration to get flow-- and K&Ns DEFINITELY do this!
Personally, I'd look more at adapting a big-rig DRY filter. You can be creative with the size packaging to get the flow and filtration you need.
With air filters, you have have to choose two of three qualities: flow, filtration efficiency, or size. You get a filter that fits, and it won't filter well if it flows. You get a filter that fits and it won't flow well if it filters well. You find one the flows well AND filters, only to find that it won't fit.
So you have to pick what's "good enough" for you. Most performance enthusiast sacrifice filtration to get flow-- and K&Ns DEFINITELY do this!
Personally, I'd look more at adapting a big-rig DRY filter. You can be creative with the size packaging to get the flow and filtration you need.
10-20-2005, 10:14 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Mopar1973man
It simple...
If you can hold up the element and see holes in the media... That means that dirt can pass through it. Now you put this on a CTD that is sucking huge amounts of air...
Whats the chances of dirt getting through those holes? (Pretty good in my book...)
If you can hold up the element and see holes in the media... That means that dirt can pass through it. Now you put this on a CTD that is sucking huge amounts of air...
Whats the chances of dirt getting through those holes? (Pretty good in my book...)
I've run K&N for 8 years and 180,000 miles, cleaned it 3 times You do the math.
My feeling is the only things wrong with K&Ns is some owners inability to read the directions that come with them and folks parroting what they've read on the internet.
10-20-2005, 10:24 AM
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Well i've had mine on for 30k with the precharger on it for only 15k, but i cleaned it with 15k on it before the precharger was put on, cause the filter packed with smaller leaves, oh well. But since i put the precharger on, i just clean that about every 5-8k, when it looks dirty, and the k&n still looks brand new.
But i will check today to see if any oil has been sucked out!, i'll let ya guys know ( i doubt oil has, but will check.).
Thanks for the input guys, Tim.
But i will check today to see if any oil has been sucked out!, i'll let ya guys know ( i doubt oil has, but will check.).
Thanks for the input guys, Tim.
10-20-2005, 10:58 AM
#23
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Looks alone tell you absolutely nothing. Any filter filters better as it gets dirty.
Go by your filter minder or service at K&N's recommended 80-100k and you'll do fine.
"Peeking" to see an airbox filter's condition, even a paper one, is a waste of time and counter productive. Not only can you not tell if the filter needs replacing by looking at it you also risk having it not seal good around the edges after you open the airbox. The only time you should open the airbox is when you intend to change or service the filter.
Go by your filter minder or service at K&N's recommended 80-100k and you'll do fine.
"Peeking" to see an airbox filter's condition, even a paper one, is a waste of time and counter productive. Not only can you not tell if the filter needs replacing by looking at it you also risk having it not seal good around the edges after you open the airbox. The only time you should open the airbox is when you intend to change or service the filter.
10-20-2005, 11:40 AM
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I tried a K&N filter in the stock housing and ended up with oil on the air hose leading to the turbo and on the fins after about 9 months of running. This happened with a brand new filter right out of the box - I never cleaned or oiled it. It's in the garage and will never go back in the truck. BHAF works for me.
10-20-2005, 01:08 PM
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Well i went out and checked my intake tube for oil from the filter, and lone behold, absolutly dry as a bone, so far the cylinder k&n hasn't put a drop of oil in the turbo. No metal screens are missing either!
But theres bad news "well could be bad", that i need your guys' input on. I have a new turbo cartridge in it as of about 25k miles ago, and i only run amsoil in my truck. Well i checked the play and it has little bit of play, i know some play is normal, but it only has about 25k??, That and it appears that one of the fins is bent, cause looking at it you can see a small fracture line where it looks to be bent???? It has been making a different turbo wine at about 2lbs of boost, but anything above that and it seems perfectly normal, so what do u guys think??
Thanks, Tim.
But theres bad news "well could be bad", that i need your guys' input on. I have a new turbo cartridge in it as of about 25k miles ago, and i only run amsoil in my truck. Well i checked the play and it has little bit of play, i know some play is normal, but it only has about 25k??, That and it appears that one of the fins is bent, cause looking at it you can see a small fracture line where it looks to be bent???? It has been making a different turbo wine at about 2lbs of boost, but anything above that and it seems perfectly normal, so what do u guys think??
Thanks, Tim.
10-20-2005, 01:50 PM
#27
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Id like to try a BHAF if I could find one. Worthless parts store where im at now.
Can someone send me a BHAF ? Does anyone stock and sell them and send UPS ? I need a few more Fleetguard oil filters , maybe I can get a BHAF with the shippment, Who sells them . Napa near me aint worth a Edit.
Send me a heat sheild too.
seriously !
Can someone send me a BHAF ? Does anyone stock and sell them and send UPS ? I need a few more Fleetguard oil filters , maybe I can get a BHAF with the shippment, Who sells them . Napa near me aint worth a Edit.
Send me a heat sheild too.
seriously !
10-20-2005, 02:03 PM
#28
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http://www.fleetfilter.com/airfilters.html
Scroll down to filter number 42790. This is the filter that I bought and I am very happy with it.
Scroll down to filter number 42790. This is the filter that I bought and I am very happy with it.
10-20-2005, 02:34 PM
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Oestriech , Thats a Edit good price $28. Is that filter you got have the hard rubber or plastic so I can clamp right to it without crushing it or do I have to get a insert to clamp too?