HTB2-64 and Towing
09-28-2006, 10:33 AM
#16
Chapter President
Jim,
...For what I use my pickup for, the twins are night and day better then any of the singles I tried. Do I think a set of twins would lower your towing EGT's? Absolutely. Will you have to beef other things up? If you are like me you will, because having low EGT's means, "not enough fuel"! If I turn my power down, to about where your max power is, and keep my RPM at 1700 or above, I'm hard pressed to break 1100 degrees. I would never tow using that much power for an extended amount of time. Water temps would get to hot, not to mention the rest of the drive train....
...For what I use my pickup for, the twins are night and day better then any of the singles I tried. Do I think a set of twins would lower your towing EGT's? Absolutely. Will you have to beef other things up? If you are like me you will, because having low EGT's means, "not enough fuel"! If I turn my power down, to about where your max power is, and keep my RPM at 1700 or above, I'm hard pressed to break 1100 degrees. I would never tow using that much power for an extended amount of time. Water temps would get to hot, not to mention the rest of the drive train....
Great topic guys, I am not near the power range, but I want to get a good turbo for towing and empty performance and this is just good to know..
09-29-2006, 12:18 AM
#18
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I'm running the 62-14. Unloaded on the street, with the TST turned on, its unleashed. Down right scary actually. I have a manual boost controller set at 45psi, and it will peg that. For a large single, it does spool quickly.
Under load (6,000 lbs), I'll typically see 15-20 psi if boost. And yes, its a ETH engine. Perhaps the sticks are too much, which would surprise me being they are made specifically for towing.
Under load (6,000 lbs), I'll typically see 15-20 psi if boost. And yes, its a ETH engine. Perhaps the sticks are too much, which would surprise me being they are made specifically for towing.
My guess is your power is closer to 400 than 450 because the engine is an ETH.
09-29-2006, 09:42 AM
#21
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I felt this way too. I thought maybe I did not have the truck 100% dialed in, but maybe the SPS62 is not all that great of a towing turbo? Anyway sorry to stray off topic here I just thought it was interesting to see that I was not the only one to feel this way about an SPS62.
09-29-2006, 10:30 AM
#22
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As a general rule I don't like seeing anything smaller then a 14 housing on the top turbo, unless you are going with an external wastegate.
A 64 with a 14 housing would flow more air, but spool would be somewhat slower. I easily make 75psi with my 62/14, but I am a 24v and I only turn 3200rpm. If you are running your 12v at 4000 or more, then a 64/14 might work better. I know Rip recently setup a 12v with a sledpuller 66, on top of an s400. That truck turns some RPMs though.
Paul
09-29-2006, 10:36 AM
#23
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Paul,
How are you limiting max boost? I now have a manual boost controller. Do you limit your boost of your small turbo to maintain a max boost of the larger turbo?
Would it be reasonable to limit max boost with twins to, lets say, 60psi (number choosen because I'm already studded)? What is the efficient final drive ratio boost number of the S400?
How are you limiting max boost? I now have a manual boost controller. Do you limit your boost of your small turbo to maintain a max boost of the larger turbo?
Would it be reasonable to limit max boost with twins to, lets say, 60psi (number choosen because I'm already studded)? What is the efficient final drive ratio boost number of the S400?
09-29-2006, 12:47 PM
#24
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At 65psi of total boost (measured at the intake maniford with a boost bolt), I am making 31psi on the bottom turbo (S400). This is when I am running the comp box on 5x5. As far as how I have it adjusted, remember that I setup my pickup for drag racing not towing, I adjust the wastegate on the top turbo, so that under most conditions it will solidly make 65psi. I have two blowoff valves that I adjust to 65psi, so they will popoff if the boost surges above that. The surges usually come when it shifts, and the rpm drops very quickly.
Depending on the S400, it is still in its map until about 36psi (from the maps I have seen).
With the fueling that you have now, limiting the boost to 50 or 55 would probably be plenty. With the way I have the wastegate set on mine to make 65psi when on 5x5, when I turn the comp box down to 1x2 it will make 50psi. This is about a 450hp level. If I remember right the bottom turbo is making about 22psi, at that fuel level. With twins 50psi, is plenty to keep 450hp cool. The reason I said with twins, is that at 50psi neither turbo is working very hard at all. In fact with the 62/14 and S400 combo, at 65psi neither turbo is working very hard.
IMO you should adjust the boost higher until you get the lowest EGT. There isn't a reason to go higher then that. This is one of those things that just because 50psi is good, doesn't mean that 60 would be better.
Paul
Depending on the S400, it is still in its map until about 36psi (from the maps I have seen).
With the fueling that you have now, limiting the boost to 50 or 55 would probably be plenty. With the way I have the wastegate set on mine to make 65psi when on 5x5, when I turn the comp box down to 1x2 it will make 50psi. This is about a 450hp level. If I remember right the bottom turbo is making about 22psi, at that fuel level. With twins 50psi, is plenty to keep 450hp cool. The reason I said with twins, is that at 50psi neither turbo is working very hard at all. In fact with the 62/14 and S400 combo, at 65psi neither turbo is working very hard.
IMO you should adjust the boost higher until you get the lowest EGT. There isn't a reason to go higher then that. This is one of those things that just because 50psi is good, doesn't mean that 60 would be better.
Paul
09-29-2006, 01:00 PM
#25
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RJ
09-29-2006, 01:35 PM
#26
Registered User
Are the HTb2 trbine housings interchangeble??
HTB2 62 /12 to a HTB2 64/14
If it works,
the 64 is curently a little laggy, and i could but the 12 on there, and
put the 14 on the 62 to make a twins setup!
for how much HP is a 62 above a s400?
no towing here!
HTB2 62 /12 to a HTB2 64/14
If it works,
the 64 is curently a little laggy, and i could but the 12 on there, and
put the 14 on the 62 to make a twins setup!
for how much HP is a 62 above a s400?
no towing here!
09-29-2006, 08:20 PM
#27
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Paul and RJ,
I need to open your files and look at your installation. RJ, good point; I won't be able to use my MBC on a twin setup because I'm exhausting full boost directly to the S400; I would have to use some other form of boost control.
Looking at Rip's page, I'm assuming it would have to be downstream of the S400. In this method, I could control total boost (the combination of upper and lower turbo's compound boost). I would ultimately like to remain in the non-Oring until I at least blow my first head gasket.....ugh.
I need to open your files and look at your installation. RJ, good point; I won't be able to use my MBC on a twin setup because I'm exhausting full boost directly to the S400; I would have to use some other form of boost control.
Looking at Rip's page, I'm assuming it would have to be downstream of the S400. In this method, I could control total boost (the combination of upper and lower turbo's compound boost). I would ultimately like to remain in the non-Oring until I at least blow my first head gasket.....ugh.
10-01-2006, 07:31 AM
#28
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How is the TST compared to the other boxes? I heard that it can be set to annnny adjustment you want with no built in safety except for the right foot? Im asking because Id like to replace my Banks.
10-01-2006, 07:55 AM
#29
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Jim,
I have my truck setup for drag racing. It is also my daily driver, even though I have other cars I could drive. All the towing I do, is towing my travel trailer to and from the drag strips. Of course I do haul fire wood with it from time to time.
For what I use my pickup for, the twins are night and day better then any of the singles I tried. Do I think a set of twins would lower your towing EGT's? Absolutely. Will you have to beef other things up? If you are like me you will, because having low EGT's means, "not enough fuel"! If I turn my power down, to about where your max power is, and keep my RPM at 1700 or above, I'm hard pressed to break 1100 degrees. I would never tow using that much power for an extended amount of time. Water temps would get to hot, not to mention the rest of the drive train.
Hope this helps...
Paul
I have my truck setup for drag racing. It is also my daily driver, even though I have other cars I could drive. All the towing I do, is towing my travel trailer to and from the drag strips. Of course I do haul fire wood with it from time to time.
For what I use my pickup for, the twins are night and day better then any of the singles I tried. Do I think a set of twins would lower your towing EGT's? Absolutely. Will you have to beef other things up? If you are like me you will, because having low EGT's means, "not enough fuel"! If I turn my power down, to about where your max power is, and keep my RPM at 1700 or above, I'm hard pressed to break 1100 degrees. I would never tow using that much power for an extended amount of time. Water temps would get to hot, not to mention the rest of the drive train.
Hope this helps...
Paul
Paul, with rinnung those Mach6+ injectors and towing your trailer, do your coolant temps get hot? is you travel tailer heavy?
10-01-2006, 05:02 PM
#30
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Stock O2,
That's what I like most about the TST; complete adjustability from the cab. Very true, adjust to whatever level you want, then futher adjust with the right pedal and the TGT guage.
Honestly, I keep mine on 0 until I feel froggy. Level 5 is crazy power. Easily outrun within seconds the safety speed rating on my tires. Haven't ever tried 8 or 9. Fly Apaches for a living.....what's the purpose?
That's what I like most about the TST; complete adjustability from the cab. Very true, adjust to whatever level you want, then futher adjust with the right pedal and the TGT guage.
Honestly, I keep mine on 0 until I feel froggy. Level 5 is crazy power. Easily outrun within seconds the safety speed rating on my tires. Haven't ever tried 8 or 9. Fly Apaches for a living.....what's the purpose?