Texaschevelle

I always hear everyone recommend the holley blue pumps. Why not the holley black? It is the same design except it can free flow 140gph vs the blue's 110gph. I have a black new in the box at my house now. A friend of mine bought it 2 weeks ago to install on his 99. he sold his 99 for a 2003 so he no longer needs it. He is selling it to me at a good price. Also included is a relay kit from jegs.


So, what if any, is the benefit of the blue vs black? Has the blue just become a household name? Please also tell me what i will need to install this pump, where to wire it into and so on. The relay kit has a toggle as well. Do I want the pump to be on a toggle, or run along with the stock LP?

Another issue is, today i will be installing my edge juice with attitude. The fuel pressure sensor comes with a banjo bolt to screw directly into the VP44, and then plug the fuel pressure sensor. So that prevents me from running the holley straight to the VP while maintaining my edges ability to give me fuel PSI at the lift pump.


Please list parts I will need. Size of fuel line, and where to plug in. And tools needed.

If I am leaving anything out, feel free to tell me. I am all about the details

lotero

the black in my opinion is the pump to go with, i run a blue with a stretched spring and it works great for me, i think the reason people run blues is because they work and are cheaper than the blacks. i run a vulcan LP reloctaion kit with 1/2 in lines. it comes with lines all the way to the IP and has a harness extension that i just cut the plug off of and spliced my pump into that way it runs just like a LP not all the time like a keyed hot. the vulcan kit comes with a banjo that goes on the bottom of the fuel filter housing that that has a pressure port to tap into.

qwest

lotero, how do you 'stretch' the spring,

My holly blue runs at 13 psi. Under load, it drops pressure, trys to recover than
drops to 8-9 psi... ( with only a smarty }

HOHN

Are you using any kind of pressure regulator? You should be, imo. I'm adding one as soon as I get my truck back.

Even a Blue is overkill for these trucks. You simply don't need 110gph. Heck, you don't even need 80gph.

A Holley Red is more than adequate. You also don't need a ton of fuel pressure. The higher fuel pressure you run just increases the stress on the internally bypassed fuel pump.

So, IF you want to run a bigger pump, then you ought to have a bypass FP regulator with a return line.

Without a regulator, a lower pressure pump will last longer-- try the Holley red.

If you have even just 5psi at the VP, then you have all the fuel you need.

Far more important, imo, to have bigger plumbing than high pressure.

JMO

txsbigdaddy

i personaly would go for the black try a summit black they have the same specs and are nearly half the price as for reg leave it wide open !!!!!!!!!!

2500superram

i thought the holley black was for alcohol and the blue was for gas

vrj

I'm not trying to make enemies but just to make a point. The Holley Blue and Black pumps are not over-kill compared to the Red pump.

The reason is very simple. The Blue and Black pumps have a max. psi of 14. Now, 14psi's is not overkilll especially once you start driving, the pressure goes down until the pressure recovers from the initial quick fuel demands.

Any way, I have the Holley Black as my main pump and the holley Blue as my backup pump.

At idle, with my dealer upgraded in-tank pump, I get 16-17 psi's and at WOT, I get between 12-13 psi's. Now, the injection pump has a pressure relief system that returns fuel to the tank at a certain pressure which I just now forgot. This "extra" pressure is what keeps the VP44 cool and when the extra fuel "pressure" that is returned through the VP44 to cool it, it also takes the extra GPH's with it. Thus, no overkill. On the contrary, the little bit of extra pressure and fuel, assists with the cooling demands.

Two of the main reasons for VP44 failer is related to low fuel pressure which increase heat, not minimal gph and problems with internal lubrication.

Regarding the Holley Black fuel pump, one reason why most peope don't run it compared to the Holley Blue pump is price and availability. Most auto part store chains carry the Red & Blue pumps but the Black allot of the time is special order and at a much higher price. Locally, the Holley Blue here in So. Calif is approx. $130 but none of the local Auto Part store carry the Holley Black which cost over $200.

My truck is rolling hard !!!! Just my 2 cents!

Big Blue24

qwest, on the inlet/outlet plate of the holley blue, there is a big flathead screw, if you remove it you will find a spring and a plunger. This plunger opens when pressure exceeds springs load and acts as a sort of bypass so the blue does not pump up to any higher psi. When I first installed mine, it would only pump up to 10 psi, so I added a second smaller spring inside the first and nearly blew up my filter canister as my fuel psi went up to 46 psi before I got the pump turned off.

Then I removed my add on and simply stretched the stock Holley Blue spring and now have 15-16 at idle.

1BAD4X4

vrj,



I see you have the in tank relocation, my truck does as well... what all is needed to make sure the VP44 is being fueled when using the in-tank relocation... I was under the impression that when going with a holley, GDP, FASS, or what ever set-up it'd completely negate/get rid of the relocation kit.


I'm looking to do this soon as I'm beta testing Qauds new box and want to make sure the VP44 has enough fuel at all times.

Russ Roth

I've had 2 of those. Neither lasted very long on my rig.

txsbigdaddy

did u run them by them self or with the stock pump

Russ Roth

Bypassed the stock pump. First one failed completely and the stocker managed to get me home from the Fairgrounds in Shelton, WA. Second one is still there as a backup but the pressure started to fluctuate like the first one did. Guess they don't like diesel very much.

HOHN

No enemies, my friend-- we're just discussing as people do.

My comment that the Blue and Black are overkill has nothing to do with the pressure capability they have-- it's the flow rate. You simply will never use 80gph in a Vp44 truck, even allowing 20% extra for cooling.

14psi is a good pressure to run. But it's not necessarily all that much better than 11psi or 8psi or 18psi for that matter.

The "little bit extra" of fuel pressure and flow from the pump will NOT improve VP44 cooling one bit. That's simply a myth. The VP only allows x amount of fuel into it. This is all that's available to cool the VP. You can't force feed it more than it will take.

The internal pressure relief that pops at 14psi dumps fuel directly into the bypass, hence a higher volume of bypassed fuel does not improve cooling at all.

Finally, as for the "main reasons for VP failure" the reality is that we simply don't know. There are thousands of VPs with hundreds of thousands of miles on them on bone stock lift pumps with little to no fuel pressure. There are also plenty of VPs that failed with all kinds of aftermarket fuel pumps and fancy fuel lines. I was one who had perfect fuel pressure all along, and lost a VP at only 40K miles.

So the bottom line is that we just do NOT know for sure what causes VP failures. We just THINK we know because some early theorizing and speculation has become Internet Gospel. The FACT is this: we haven't a single shred of proof as to what does or doesn't cause VP failure.

If you doubt that my words are true, see if you can dig up the infamous "pumps, lines, and what not" thread on TDR. In that looong thread, Bill Kondolay of DTT put to rest the issue of lift pumps as he actually installed some very expensive flowmeters on the return lines and verified that the amount of fuel returned doesn't change with fuel pressure.

It's truly one of the legendary TDR threads, and every 24V owner should have a chance to read it.

Justin

qwest

Hohn, Thank you for the concise summation.

MY VP failure: ( I looked at the internals when rebuilt )
was due to the advance piston binding in the brass cylinder , as I understand
a common problem in 02 pumps....( and I suspect not related to low LP pressure )
But I am sure there are many other failure modes.
Thanks again....

vrj

Hi,

My Dodge relocation pump is still mounted in my tank because I currently have not been able to drop the tank to remove it. I will remove it soon.

If you have the opportunity to remove the in-tank pump, I would definetly suggest it prior to installing the Holley pump. The reason is this, if the in-tank pump fails, no fuel or very little fuel will be able to pass through the in-tank pump even if you have an aux. pump down stream.

I like the Holly Blue and Black pumps which are a very good and reasonable choice even then some people in this form disagree. Do your homework and purchase/install what you think is best option.

Whatever pump you use, whether you keep the in-take pump or not, Eric at Vulcan Performance can assist you with any questions you might have. You can order a wiring kit for aux./main pump along with either the Draw Straw I or Draw Straw II which are fuel tank pickup tubes. The Draw Staw I modifies the stock module and the Draw Straw II is used when drilling a new hole in the tank. I have both and will be installing them when I drop the tank.

I also have a FASS fuel pump on the way and will install as my primary pump and keep the Holley as a backup.

If you have little time like me you can add the aux. pump with the in-tank pump now, and later, drop the in-tank and remove the reto-kit, add back the stock module and add the Draw Staw.

You can order your stuff on-line at VulcanPerformance. Based on what I'm doing, you would need the following:

* Draw Straw for tank pickup for 3/8" fuel line
* 3/8" fuel line
* Fuel Pump of choice
* Fuel Hose Fittings for the fuel pump, stock fuel filter and VP44
* Electical pump wiring harness with relay

Thats all I can remember at the moment. Eric can do a better job than I can. Call Vulcan Performance for better assistance

vulcanweld@juno.com.or call 360-450-4237 M-F 9-5 PST