Head Removed for Headgasket repair, cylinder pics
03-21-2006 | 07:24 AM
#18
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,564
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From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
Originally Posted by Don M
I see this often. It is EGT related. The rings are scoring the walls from expansion and oil burn off.
Always, always run an oil with a high flash point if you pull sleds, drag race or just run high EGT having fun as a hedge. Rings gaps need to be at least .025. I like more. Watch the EGT, it does big damage. Use water to keep EGT in check if you can.
You would be surprised just how many engines there are like this out there.
Don~
Always, always run an oil with a high flash point if you pull sleds, drag race or just run high EGT having fun as a hedge. Rings gaps need to be at least .025. I like more. Watch the EGT, it does big damage. Use water to keep EGT in check if you can.
You would be surprised just how many engines there are like this out there.
Don~
Royal purple is 435°
Redline is overkill for most guys, but if you are pushing the limits and abusing your truck, that extra high flashpoint may prevent the scoring seen above....
03-21-2006 | 08:03 AM
#19
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Joined: Jan 2005
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I cant tell from the picture the orientation of the markings. Standing at the front bumper looking at the engine are the wear lines at 12:00 and 6:00 or 3:00 and 9:00, or some other orientation ?
If they are at 3 and 9, then it is the piston skirt rubbing.
If they are at 12 or 6, then I would be very worried that the wrist pin has moved.
If they are at some other orientation other than 12/6 or 3/9, then it could be the ring gap closing at high temp and causing it.
Actually it could always be this third case, because you never know for sure where the ring gap is.
For what its worth, I would not drive yourself crazy over it. If you want, yank the piston, check the skirt, if it looks ok, assume it was the rings, add .003" to the ring gap, clean the cylinder up and RUN IT.
Bottom line, it aint gonna die any time soon, and you can be building up a new short block while you are still driving this one.
KP
KP
If they are at 3 and 9, then it is the piston skirt rubbing.
If they are at 12 or 6, then I would be very worried that the wrist pin has moved.
If they are at some other orientation other than 12/6 or 3/9, then it could be the ring gap closing at high temp and causing it.
Actually it could always be this third case, because you never know for sure where the ring gap is.
For what its worth, I would not drive yourself crazy over it. If you want, yank the piston, check the skirt, if it looks ok, assume it was the rings, add .003" to the ring gap, clean the cylinder up and RUN IT.
Bottom line, it aint gonna die any time soon, and you can be building up a new short block while you are still driving this one.
KP
KP
03-21-2006 | 10:31 AM
#20
DTR Advertiser
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,347
Likes: 1
From: In the Shop
Originally Posted by HOHN
FYI-- redline Oil has a flashpoint 486° in their diesel 15w-40.
Royal purple is 435°
Redline is overkill for most guys, but if you are pushing the limits and abusing your truck, that extra high flashpoint may prevent the scoring seen above....
Royal purple is 435°
Redline is overkill for most guys, but if you are pushing the limits and abusing your truck, that extra high flashpoint may prevent the scoring seen above....
Check the data sheets on that stuff and the MPZ additive is for real.
Don~
03-21-2006 | 02:32 PM
#22
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,564
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From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
Originally Posted by Don M
As long as we are talking oil. TORCO is *my* favorite.
Check the data sheets on that stuff and the MPZ additive is for real.
Don~
Check the data sheets on that stuff and the MPZ additive is for real.
Don~
A torco additive package on the Redline ester base stock would be sweet!
03-21-2006 | 06:56 PM
#23
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 104
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From: New Philadelphia, OH
Bobcat;
I believe you stated that the scuff marks are not detectable by the thumbnail. If that is the case then you are in good shape. The way I see the pictures, the scuff is at the back of the block and in line with the run of the cylinders. If that is the case, then drop the piston, check the wrist pin keeper, examine the skirt, ensure no stuck or broken rings, hone the cylinder and go back to work. clean up the marks and if they are not detectable by catching your thumbnail, the cylinder is fine. I went in to my dad's Mack with 1,891,764 miles in 2003 and to clarify this there is no truck on this or any other board that has been put through the hell that truck has. Found very similar markings in two liners. Yes I know there are many out there screaming at the screen saying "You should have Changed the liner!!!!!!!!" I miked them (well within specs still) I ran a dingleberry hone through the cylinders as they give a better crosshatch, changed the rings, (several were broken) new keepers in the pistons and the truck was back on a Anhydrous tanker the next day. The truck is now over 2 mil and the engine is fine. (Cab is about gone, and 8 dead transmissions) Unless that cylinder wall is really chewed up. you are in good shape.
R/
Eric
I believe you stated that the scuff marks are not detectable by the thumbnail. If that is the case then you are in good shape. The way I see the pictures, the scuff is at the back of the block and in line with the run of the cylinders. If that is the case, then drop the piston, check the wrist pin keeper, examine the skirt, ensure no stuck or broken rings, hone the cylinder and go back to work. clean up the marks and if they are not detectable by catching your thumbnail, the cylinder is fine. I went in to my dad's Mack with 1,891,764 miles in 2003 and to clarify this there is no truck on this or any other board that has been put through the hell that truck has. Found very similar markings in two liners. Yes I know there are many out there screaming at the screen saying "You should have Changed the liner!!!!!!!!" I miked them (well within specs still) I ran a dingleberry hone through the cylinders as they give a better crosshatch, changed the rings, (several were broken) new keepers in the pistons and the truck was back on a Anhydrous tanker the next day. The truck is now over 2 mil and the engine is fine. (Cab is about gone, and 8 dead transmissions) Unless that cylinder wall is really chewed up. you are in good shape.
R/
Eric
03-21-2006 | 08:23 PM
#25
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Amherst, WI
Originally Posted by jlipskoc
Bobcat, can I ask how hot the egt's were previous to this happening?
Were you racing or towing or just driving down the road?
Were you racing or towing or just driving down the road?
I was racing, towing, and truck pulling.
I never kept the EGT's pegged for a long period of time, but they DID get high.
03-21-2006 | 08:33 PM
#26
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From: Amherst, WI
Originally Posted by 600 Megawatts
I cant tell from the picture the orientation of the markings. Standing at the front bumper looking at the engine are the wear lines at 12:00 and 6:00 or 3:00 and 9:00, or some other orientation ?
If they are at 3 and 9, then it is the piston skirt rubbing.
If they are at 12 or 6, then I would be very worried that the wrist pin has moved.
If they are at some other orientation other than 12/6 or 3/9, then it could be the ring gap closing at high temp and causing it.
Actually it could always be this third case, because you never know for sure where the ring gap is.
KP
If they are at 3 and 9, then it is the piston skirt rubbing.
If they are at 12 or 6, then I would be very worried that the wrist pin has moved.
If they are at some other orientation other than 12/6 or 3/9, then it could be the ring gap closing at high temp and causing it.
Actually it could always be this third case, because you never know for sure where the ring gap is.
KP
03-22-2006 | 09:03 PM
#27
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,077
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From: Garrard county, Kentucky
I am no engine expert, but it seems to me if you could just lightly hone it out, and put it back together, that it would be perfectly fine. These things are hard to kill, and if it was running fine, then I believe you will be OK. Just clean it up the best you can, put it back together, and run the snot out of it 
'
Eric
'
Eric
02-12-2007 | 08:10 PM
#30
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,411
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From: Laredo
prefect donor.. with minimal work..
Rick