Garrett turbos
02-03-2008 | 11:13 AM
#2
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From: eastern pa
GT 3782 and GT 4202 i think are the equivalent to a 35-40 ht3b. Once Hohn gets to this thread he'll straighten out my numbers and have better info than i can give. But i think thats the numbers, I think the prices are the biggest reasons you dont see them being used so much.
02-03-2008 | 11:44 AM
#3
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From: somis,CA.
I know 3 people that run garrett turbos on 12 valves. they run TSO4 compressor P trim turbine wheel with .84 A/R euro turbine housings. and another guy that pulls with a T-66 comp. same turbine side, on his 24 valve.
02-03-2008 | 02:01 PM
#4
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From: Airdrie, Alberta
GT 3782 and GT 4202 i think are the equivalent to a 35-40 ht3b. Once Hohn gets to this thread he'll straighten out my numbers and have better info than i can give. But i think thats the numbers, I think the prices are the biggest reasons you dont see them being used so much.
02-03-2008 | 03:44 PM
#5
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
Straighten things out or confuse things much worse? hahaha!
3782 comes in two trims-- stg 1 is ~58mm inducer, stg 2 is ~61mm inducer.
4202 is 74.7mm (call it 75) inducer.
I think cost is the single biggest reason why people don't run them. It's hard to justify the $2300 price tag of a BB 4202 when a $600 "B2" S400 will also work for twins.
Turbonetics units can get even pricier for the big ones. A T-netics primary can run $2500-$3000, just for the big turbo. Top charger will be $2K, so your almost 5K into with just the turbos!
That said, it's somewhat of an apples-to-oranges comparison, imo. It's almost like saying an F-15 and a Cessna are both "just airplanes."
A well-designed twins setup should not just have 1:1 drive/boost ratio, but BETTER than 1:1. over most of the operating range.
Twins aren't cheap. Cutting-edge twins are much more expensive still. You can easily have $800 in just the two external gates on a high-end twins setup (I assume high end twins set have two gates).
From what I've budgeted for my "dream" twins setup, I will have about $7K into the setup-- not counting welder purchase, head prep, etc. I'm talking JUST the twins parts and fabrication.
It might be 2 or 3 years still before I can get some twins built. My truck may be gone before I get there. Heck, my truck might never see a different turbo than the stocker
3782 comes in two trims-- stg 1 is ~58mm inducer, stg 2 is ~61mm inducer.
4202 is 74.7mm (call it 75) inducer.
I think cost is the single biggest reason why people don't run them. It's hard to justify the $2300 price tag of a BB 4202 when a $600 "B2" S400 will also work for twins.
Turbonetics units can get even pricier for the big ones. A T-netics primary can run $2500-$3000, just for the big turbo. Top charger will be $2K, so your almost 5K into with just the turbos!
That said, it's somewhat of an apples-to-oranges comparison, imo. It's almost like saying an F-15 and a Cessna are both "just airplanes."
A well-designed twins setup should not just have 1:1 drive/boost ratio, but BETTER than 1:1. over most of the operating range.
Twins aren't cheap. Cutting-edge twins are much more expensive still. You can easily have $800 in just the two external gates on a high-end twins setup (I assume high end twins set have two gates).
From what I've budgeted for my "dream" twins setup, I will have about $7K into the setup-- not counting welder purchase, head prep, etc. I'm talking JUST the twins parts and fabrication.
It might be 2 or 3 years still before I can get some twins built. My truck may be gone before I get there. Heck, my truck might never see a different turbo than the stocker
02-03-2008 | 04:07 PM
#6
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From: Browns Valley CA
I never tried Ball bearing chargers after the turbonetics fiasco. It would be interesting to hear from someone that has done both and compared results. A standard gt42 can be had for under $900. A comparable(wheel and housing size) S400 can be had for $750. Compare that to a $2000 or $3000 ball bearing primary. Real world differences are probably modest. It would be nice to hear from some builders that have tried and tested both.
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02-03-2008 | 06:19 PM
#8
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From: Tempe, AZ
www.limitengineering.com/GTmodelcode.pdf
A Guide To Deciphering Garrett’s New “GT” Model Numbers
The model number uses a minimum of six and a maximum of ten characters in the following format:
GTXaabbcccc
The first two positions are always GT.
Position “X” is used to indicate a revision to an original “GT” series turbocharger. The original GT
turbocharger will never use position “X”, only in revisions thereafter.
Position “aa” designate the turbine size and bearing system. “GTaa” is referred to as the “Base Model
Number”.
Position “bb” designate the compressor wheel diameter in millimeters. Compressor wheels with diameters
larger than 100 millimeters only the last two digits will be used.
Positions “cccc” may be used to designate special features of a particular turbocharger. Not all four
positions are required to be used. Some of these designators are as follows:
“B” Boreless
“D” Dual Passage Bypass (Wastegate)
“F” Carbon Seal (Compressor Side)
“G” Compressor Recirculation Valve
“L” Water Cooled Center Housing
“N” Ported Shroud Compressor
“R” Ball Bearing
“S” Single Passage Bypass (Wastegate)
“V” Muti Vane Variable Geometry Turbine
“W” Water Cooled Turbine Housing
Note: Some Dual Ball Bearing and Variable Nozzle Turbine (VNT) Turbochargers and CHRAs do not
rigorously comply with this guide.
The model number uses a minimum of six and a maximum of ten characters in the following format:
GTXaabbcccc
The first two positions are always GT.
Position “X” is used to indicate a revision to an original “GT” series turbocharger. The original GT
turbocharger will never use position “X”, only in revisions thereafter.
Position “aa” designate the turbine size and bearing system. “GTaa” is referred to as the “Base Model
Number”.
Position “bb” designate the compressor wheel diameter in millimeters. Compressor wheels with diameters
larger than 100 millimeters only the last two digits will be used.
Positions “cccc” may be used to designate special features of a particular turbocharger. Not all four
positions are required to be used. Some of these designators are as follows:
“B” Boreless
“D” Dual Passage Bypass (Wastegate)
“F” Carbon Seal (Compressor Side)
“G” Compressor Recirculation Valve
“L” Water Cooled Center Housing
“N” Ported Shroud Compressor
“R” Ball Bearing
“S” Single Passage Bypass (Wastegate)
“V” Muti Vane Variable Geometry Turbine
“W” Water Cooled Turbine Housing
Note: Some Dual Ball Bearing and Variable Nozzle Turbine (VNT) Turbochargers and CHRAs do not
rigorously comply with this guide.
02-03-2008 | 06:32 PM
#9
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From: Albuquerque, NM
I never tried Ball bearing chargers after the turbonetics fiasco. It would be interesting to hear from someone that has done both and compared results. A standard gt42 can be had for under $900. A comparable(wheel and housing size) S400 can be had for $750. Compare that to a $2000 or $3000 ball bearing primary. Real world differences are probably modest. It would be nice to hear from some builders that have tried and tested both.
and what is this turbonetics fiasco?
02-03-2008 | 07:43 PM
#10
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 763
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From: Browns Valley CA
Several years ago a ball bearing charger came onto the market. It was called the Edge BB turbo. It was touted as an ultra fast spooling 550 hp charger. I bought one right off the bat and just about the time I got mine, Byron H. installed one. I think it lasted about 10 minutes. I offered to loan mine to Lenny at Dynomite Diesel. He put it on his truck and I think it made a bout 2 trips around the block before it gave out. Mine was sent back to either Diesel Dynamics or Turbonetics (I forget which). They had a 1 year warranty on the charger. I waited a while to see if the problem could be corrected. Nothing was ever resolved except that perhaps the turbo was more of a 350hp charger instead. I was offered another BB turbo(if and when they figured out the problem) or a Bell WSB. I took the WSB. The WSB was stout, but basicly a stock hx35 replacement. The warranty was honored promptly, but I spent 1500 on a whiz bang shiny pile of scrap and ended up with a little charger that was the worst secondary charger I have ever tried(13 twin sets and counting). Not sure who was responsible for the problem. I have avoided both companies since, but would try a turbonetics charger if they were proven to perform better than what i have, and they would stand behind it.
Ron
Ron
02-04-2008 | 12:43 AM
#11
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: somis,CA.
Several years ago a ball bearing charger came onto the market. It was called the Edge BB turbo. It was touted as an ultra fast spooling 550 hp charger. I bought one right off the bat and just about the time I got mine, Byron H. installed one. I think it lasted about 10 minutes. I offered to loan mine to Lenny at Dynomite Diesel. He put it on his truck and I think it made a bout 2 trips around the block before it gave out. Mine was sent back to either Diesel Dynamics or Turbonetics (I forget which). They had a 1 year warranty on the charger. I waited a while to see if the problem could be corrected. Nothing was ever resolved except that perhaps the turbo was more of a 350hp charger instead. I was offered another BB turbo(if and when they figured out the problem) or a Bell WSB. I took the WSB. The WSB was stout, but basicly a stock hx35 replacement. The warranty was honored promptly, but I spent 1500 on a whiz bang shiny pile of scrap and ended up with a little charger that was the worst secondary charger I have ever tried(13 twin sets and counting). Not sure who was responsible for the problem. I have avoided both companies since, but would try a turbonetics charger if they were proven to perform better than what i have, and they would stand behind it.
Ron
Ron
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