West Coast

Timing Pin is back in. And I don't think it was broke. I just had a hard time getting it in the right position. I used the mark that my local Cummins shop made on the dampener from last years HG replacement. Truck is running excellent except for the fact it won't rev past 3K with out cutting out. I think I need to get larger DV's to keep up the 80 HP injectors.

freddy_772

Hear is an alternative to ringing your head. I just took out my second head gasket (first one since I installed ARP studs and plained head). I took mine to 140# but didn't re-torque after driving, obviously a big mistake since that was only 2 months ago. Instead of installing another stock gasket I talked to BD Diesel Performance, my main supplier for all the goodies, and was informed about a multi-layer steel gasket. BD has installed them and is looking at becoming a distributor. The company is Cometic Gasket Inc. and the website is www.cometic.com. You have to look up the part# for your gasket then call them with it. I just ordered mine today and should see it on X-mas eve. Price is $260.00 but not sure about shipping for myself since I'm in Kamloops, B.C.

dieselman2300

Look around about the Cometic MLS. There have been alot of guys blowing them. I had one for a 12 valve ready to go in the truck, but decided against it after all of the problems guys are having with them.
You can find info. on them here(DTR) and some more on competition diesel.

Tate

I'm in the same boat, my Cometic is sitting in the basement. I should probably send it back to them.

OlBlue

Double check your GSK. Likely a spring is not the same # clicks as it should be.

freddy_772

I've now looked into other postings about cometic gaskets that others hear on DTR have tried and failed to seal the deal. I stopped the order on mine and ordered another stocker but will do a torque step up this time as i drive it with a final torque of 140#. I am only running 42# boost but am going to put the BD S400 on with my S300 this summer. I will probably not go past 60# boost when all said and done. Do any of you think a stock gasket will hold out well to 60# with studs or should I be ringing the head? Also, what is a common cost on ringing?

dieselman2300

Sorry for the bad news. Alot of guys were hoping the Cometic gasket was the new deal.
You can get your head oringed anywhere from $300-$400.
I have read on here and other forums that some guys run a .020 marine gasket with studs and NO orings and it will hold around #60.
I just went through this whole ordeal. I just annied up and spent the money for the orings. I dont want to do this job again.
I have read the trick to get the orings to seat is to not put the truck under alot of boost, under #10 is what I've read. Then you need to do at least 3 retorques when the engine is cold.
1. reassemble engine and start it and warm it to operating temps.
2. Let engine cool overnight and do the first retorque.
3. run your truck with #10 of boost or less for 1 tank of fuel.
4. let engine cool overnight and do another retorque.
5. repeat step 3&4. Just give the engine a little more boost #20 or less.

I personally will do as many retorques needed until nuts dont move anymore.

freddy_772

Thanks for the info. I think I'll try the stocker with the torque sequece you've given me. Maybe it'll be broke in good by the time I add an S400 to her in the summer and I won't have a problem. If I do I guess the head will be getting ringed after all. Just another one of those things.

West Coast

Freddy 140 pound final torque is A LOT..... Be careful, even ARP studs can break at 140 pounds.... With the ARP Moly lube you should not have to take your studs to 140 pounds. You will be putting you studs at or past their limit.

I just went out and checked my ARP Studs. I did not torque them a second time. I just checked to see where some of them are at. The ones I checked are still right at 105 where I put them 10 days ago. If you head gasket blew after 2 months there is more problems then a re torque. Stock head bolts are torqued some where around 62 lbs for the short bolts and 88 lbs for the long. And there are ton's of guys on here running 40 pounds of boost on stock studs and stock gaskets with no issues.

People seem to forget about to much drive pressure killing a HG. To much engine heat or to high of EGT's. All those things combined will kill a HG in no time. No matter how much torque is applied to the head bolts or studs. Even though my HG replacement was my first on my dodge I have been building chevy small blocks and big blocks for years. The same rules apply to these dodges as my chevys. Poor prep work equal MAJOR PROBLEMS.. A badly prepped block, goober'ed gasket or even a little dirt on the gasket will cause major issue with the HG in no time....

I think a lot of people put the blame on the gasket no holding up. But I bet it's a lot more than just the old "gasket" was bad theory.

ARP's should hold great with 105 lbs. My old HG was done by a local shop last year. The HG lasted 11 months. It had nothing to do with the torque. It had to do with them not machining my head. And very poor prep work.

I realize this post is a few years old but there is some good reading in this:

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...lt+torque+spec

freddy_772

Thanks West Coast for all that info from '02. I am going to contact ARP before I do anything.

West Coast

No problem Freddy... Report back with your findings....

dieselman2300

west coast,
Why are you only torqueing your ARP studs to #105? ARP states right in the direction that toque specs are #125 WITH moly lube. Also, a proper retorque is to loosen the nuts and then retorque them to whatever your comfortable with in ONE easy motion.
Also make sure your torque wrench has been calibrated, Craftsman and Husky wrenches have been tested here and have been as much as %20 out of calibration right out of the box.

I have brought mine up to #140 over the last couple of retorques. First initial torque and 1st retorque I kept them at #125. 2nd retorque was #133. 3rd retorque #140. I will do another retoque this weekend to check them and then again in a couple thousand miles.

Josh Woodruff simulated a block/head with Arp Studs and monitored the stretching of the bolt.... he torqued to 140 then went in 5lbs increments from there. the bolt did not start to stretch until 180ft.lbs and didn't snap until 250ft.lbs.

freddy_772

You're right about the torque sequence. I just called ARP tech support to double check and was informed to torque to 125# and back off 3 times. After torqueing that 3rd time do not loosen back off but go around and torque a 4th time, again at 125#. That is all they want us to do but I think I will torque again after running a tank of fuel through it. Let me know if you think I should do the last torque after a tank of fuel higher than 125#. Thanks

dieselman2300

Cant hurt to go to #135-#140.

The only thing I and others disagree about is ARPs retorque sequence. ARP wants you to torque to #125 and then loosen and retorque 3 times.
Alot of us have done the initial torque to #125 and THEN warm the truck up to operating temps by JUST IDILING it.
Then, let it sit until cold (everyone recommends overnight) then do a retorque. Loosen nuts one at a time and then retorque.
Everyone on here and competitiondiesel.com recommend to do this 3 times.
After the first and second retorque, run the truck gently through a full tank of fuel and do another retorque.
The reason to do the retorques and running the truck is to get a bunch of heat cycles on the gasket and orings so that they seat themselves (expansion=hot, contraction=cold) if this make sense. So when you heat the truck up it seats those orings into the gasket. When you let the truck cool down you WILL get more out of the studs/nuts. You might not realize/feel it, but you will see it in the valve adustment.
Hope this helps.

dieselman2300

Heres a good long thread on retorques.

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...ad.php?t=18439