Fishin2Deep4U

Look in my sig for the F1 link. There is a list of authorized distributors. I don't know where you are located, but out in the PNW I get most everything from Rip at Source Automotive.

But, there may be one of the locations closer to you that will save some freight.

They do in fact come in stafes. The basic stages are M1, M2, ect through M7+

They also do in between sizes. Like an M2.4. Talk to Rip and he'll give you the skinny.

The difference in DDP and F1 is that DDP takes an injector that has holes in the tip and runs a slurry through them to open them up. F1 uses a precision EDM machine to make perfectly sized holes that are of consistant diameter from one to the next. Also, the spray angles are maintained for any size hole as they are cut from a blank tip. In addition, all F1 injectors are balanced at operating pressures. I heard that he tested over 15K psi. At least that's what I think I remember. And uses a testing fluid.

Go to http://www.nwbombers.com/forum/index...opic=32060&hl=. This is a post that Don M made regarding pop pressures and testing. It may shed some light on how things are done.

Dave

Sunir

Thanks Dave...looks like they've got a dist. in VA beach where I go several times a year. I'll have to give 'em a call.

Looked at the F1 M1, 1.6 and 2 ...each look to have advantages. Pretty costly but could be a good investment. Have to find out which are best for overall drivablity, reliable mild power increas and daily driven fuel economy.

Fishin2Deep4U

When I was running a PDR35 12cm housing, 3.54 gear, 285 tire and M4s I got 22 MPG.

With the twins, I get between 23-24. This is at 65-70 with the cruise control.

With M6s and twins I got 22-23 consistantly.

Dave

HOHN

Definitely! Why not have your cake and eat it too, if the budget allows?

I installed a set of the smallest F1s (Mach 1 injectors) in a friend's truck. He's knocking down 22-23mpg on the hwy in WY windiness!

F1s are more expensive, but you DEFINITELY get something in return.

The fact that my truck gets as good a mileage with 150hp injectors as it did BONE STOCK says tons for how good these injectors are.

Justin

Sunir

I'd for sure like to get 23 - 24 mpg with my truck!! I'm gettin 18.5 hwy and 16.4 mixed hwy + around town now. How would I do that? Lets start with a stock truck like mine is now...help me out guys I'm ready, budget is not as much of an issue as long as I get back what I spend in realiable value and economical fuel return. I only tow (sometimes) a 5k trailer (at most loaded & soaking wet) ... however my truck is used for daily commuting and such so the gains in reliability, fuel economy matter a lot. Power is a good by-product if it comes along with the original goal.

Fishin2Deep4U

For milage

Best bang for your buck, a timing box.

Next, a good set of injectors. M2 or so.

Near stock size rubber, a gentle foot and simple maintenance.

Again, call one of the distributors, they have way more data than most.

Also, at some point, the automatic trans is going to be a limiting factor. Most people do not recommend more than about 60HP without addressing the trans. Mine failed with only an EZ at 22K miles.

Dave

Sunir

So what do you think would be a good timing box? I was thinking Edge Jw/A using only the first 3 stages (not tapping into the VP)...any other recommendations or thoughts on this...that would be kinda like an EZ but I'd get my guages along with it, that's the idea I was thinking...

As for tranny, I was thinking a Tq conv, valve body and a deep pan....since I'm only going mild gains for reliabilty and everday economy and some light (5k lb trailer) occasional towing...

of course the first mod will be a FASS or a Wallbro GFS with big line kit...for the stock lift pump woes... then do intake and exhaust, followed by tranny upgrade(s)...then get the box. Finally if need be move onto injectors after that...does this sound like a good strategy? Any advice on the brands and vendor deals for the peices of this upgrade plan?

Fishin2Deep4U

Everyone has an opinion on various products. I take the approach of where do I want to end up and what can I use today along the way.

You said you want a wire tap box and injectors. I would plan on a full trans frrom the vendor of you choice. Not for the towing, but for the 500HP you'll be making.

Based on what you have said here and since you do not have gauges, the Edge Juice is not a bad way to go. Run it as an EZ (pump wire not tapped) for now.

Get the injectors you want to use and leave them on the shelf. When you can afford to do the trans, connect the pump wire and install the sticks. Next morning, get the trans done.

A VB and TC is a bandaid beyond 400hp IMO. And 400 comes real easy. by changing these parts on anything with over 30K miles, you are just throwing good money after bad. You'll be building a full trans at some point and the TC will most likely get replaced to match the new power level and possibly the VB will be changed as well.

If I was starting all over, the very first mod I would have made is the transmission. Followed by the biggest sticks I could buy and even a used EZ to add timing. Later, add a wire tap box, sell the EZ for what you paid for it and then look to turbo upgrades.

The order I do things is different than most. But it works for me based ont he way I drive and my self control. I can daily drive huge injectors and not smoke everyone out. So, it all comes down to you.

Dave

Danderson

With your EZ and RV 275's,unless your auto is upgraded it's not going to be happy. Mine shuddered on my '99 with Van Aaken(similiar) and 50 hp injectors.

Fishin2Deep4U

And I lost my trans with only an EZ.

Some hold up better than others. I had less than 30K on the clock. Less than 10K with the EZ.

Dave

Sunir

Can you stack an Edge EZ with a smarty? Would this make sense? the EZ is a timing box right? or is it fuel and timing (without tapping the VP)?

Some say the timing levels are great on the smarty, so if that's the case then maybe ideally you'd like the smarty...

but if you could use the EZ for the mpg gains ie. timing, then stack a fuel level with the smarty would that be good?

I'm looking for better overall (town and hwy) mpg as a primary goal and better around town low end acceleration as a secondary goal....

Fishin2Deep4U

I would not spend the money on a Smarty if you have an EZ.

While you do gain additional bottom end fueling, I would keep what you have as it's just as reliable, makes as much or more power and is much more driveable when you do go to bigger sticks.

The auto doesn't like all that bottom end fuel.

Add a TST later and you'll have a screamer.

Dave

Sunir

Hi Dave... hope all is well bud I actually don't have any module at all...looking into smarty, Edge EZ, or Quad's XZT+

everyone raves about the smarty as a phenomenal mod, about how great it's timing is and how it helps that slug bottom end around town traffic acceleration...that's a big plus for me, but I also want to get fuel economy gains as a primary consideration...

I was thinking maybe smarty on level 3 or stacking with smarty for the lower end acceleration plus something else for better fuel economy gains....

any advice?

Fishin2Deep4U

If you run a timing box, you would run the Smarty without timing. So, no help with milage there.

It will be more fun to drive on an otherwise stock truck. If you get to the point of haveing a tight auto adn lots of fueling, you'll have less love for it.

I have owned several different combos. When I had small injectors, the Smarty was better than the Catcher it replaced. Simply because I could go to level 3 and it was better than the full Catcher. However, it was readily apparent that the cruise surging and lockup issues were there.

Over time, I tried to get the pedal softened up for the even bigger sticks I went to. And they just couldn't get it done.

Since it has been a year since any major updates for the 2nd gens, I would be leary of buying it for updatability. However, they may decide to come back and fix it later, it's a tiugh call.

Personally, I went back to the Edge stuff because the driveability is perfet even with the M6 size injector andd the smoke is way down for daily driving.

While most of the younger set thinks the smoke is cool. it gets old to people and I get tired of cleaning it off my rig. I can still black out 8 lanes of traffic at will, but the system is far easier to operate as a whole. The cruise control works flawless with no surging. And I ahve better throttle action on the bottom. If I want to get more bottom end, I push down farther.

JMO.

Dave

dodgeboy2008

i run an 180 ijector with my ez but u have to have a fast because with out it it will burn up your pump but i am geting around 22miles per gallon with a shot turbo when i put my new one on who knows maybe more