Dyno Numbers with Nitro Methane
02-10-2007, 03:44 PM
#32
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Man, this is interesting! How much does the model nitro run a gallon? I really think the hood will be weaker than the firewall
.
I thought nitro was a real slow burning fuel that loaded the piston farther down the power stroke and that was where you got the extra power? Keep us informed on the progress of this!
I have tried the acetone and propane both. The acetone didn't do anything and the propane wasn't worth the effort for the little power it added.
. I thought nitro was a real slow burning fuel that loaded the piston farther down the power stroke and that was where you got the extra power? Keep us informed on the progress of this!
I have tried the acetone and propane both. The acetone didn't do anything and the propane wasn't worth the effort for the little power it added.
02-11-2007, 01:58 AM
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http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAKD7&P=0
about 25 bucks a gallon. if you go up higher % nitro, they have some 60% nitro thats about 43 a gallon.
I wonder how much you would have to inject through a meth injection system with this? 60% nitro, 18% oil, the rest methanol
about 25 bucks a gallon. if you go up higher % nitro, they have some 60% nitro thats about 43 a gallon.
I wonder how much you would have to inject through a meth injection system with this? 60% nitro, 18% oil, the rest methanol
02-11-2007, 02:00 AM
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17 bucks a gallon for 20%
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGHC6&P=0
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGHC6&P=0
02-11-2007, 04:13 AM
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I don't think you would want to inject hobby fuel. Those engines run off of compression too but I think it would be too uncontrollable just injected in the intake. Mixing with the diesel keeps it firing when it is supposed to.
02-11-2007, 05:36 AM
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Does this stuff blend completely with diesel with no seperation to it? It probably shouldn't be injected like Nasty says, you can't control when it is going to ignite and with it haveing alcohol and oil it could ignite real early.
I think there is a hobby shop near I will have to check it out. Some of the guys I used to sand race with would mix about 10 percent in there alcohol and pick up a half second in a 100 yards. One of them was mixing it at about 30 to 50 percent and getting a whole second off of his times. I could get around a half second with a 250 shot of nitrous so you can kinda figure how fast the horsepower comes up with just a little of it.
I think there is a hobby shop near I will have to check it out. Some of the guys I used to sand race with would mix about 10 percent in there alcohol and pick up a half second in a 100 yards. One of them was mixing it at about 30 to 50 percent and getting a whole second off of his times. I could get around a half second with a 250 shot of nitrous so you can kinda figure how fast the horsepower comes up with just a little of it.
02-11-2007, 09:20 AM
#37
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NITROMETHANE CH3NO2
is an inflammable water-clear liquid with a mild odour, containing approximately 53% by weight of oxygen. Water will mix with nitromethane to the extent of 2.5% only, by volume.
I don't know for sure, but it sounds like a small amount could be added to a water system. It would be better to mix the nitro with an emulsifier of some sort.
is an inflammable water-clear liquid with a mild odour, containing approximately 53% by weight of oxygen. Water will mix with nitromethane to the extent of 2.5% only, by volume.
I don't know for sure, but it sounds like a small amount could be added to a water system. It would be better to mix the nitro with an emulsifier of some sort.
02-13-2007, 10:35 AM
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I know a guy that ran 100% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol through his Water Meth kit for a week or so.....well till the engine blew up.......That 7.3L lasted longer that i though it would......
04-02-2007, 12:18 PM
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Lance D--Model glow fuel engines don't last much more than 100 hours on a good day. That represents about 600 10 minute flights. I've worn out a good many planes and motors long before this. They run on a glow plug with platinum or other exotic elements. These act as a catalyst to combustion. In other words the mix of a red hot platinum element and alcohol and a small amount of nitro (5%) is enough to keep the element red hot and provide ignition. This is in a nutshell....the chemical process is a bit more complex than that. Now model gas engines are a different story. Basically weed whacker motors and chain saw motors. They will last almost for ever...if they don't get crashed or get too many prop strikes.
As for nitro in the Cummins. Putting it in the tank will be almost useless and is very likely to cause come corrosion due to the alcohol. Here are some numbers...
Assume 20 gallons of #2 mixed with 1 gallon of 20% nitro model fuel.
95.20% diesel
.96% nitro
.96% castor oil (may be less as most model fuels use blends.)
2.86% alcohol
_____________
99.98 total (due to round off)
I think most of us would complain bitterly if we got diesel with almost 3% alcohol in it. With exception of very very cold weather. Even normal winter fuel doesn't have this. If you look at additive bottles they say "contains no alcohol".
What's the result??
The diesel will burn nicely, the castor oil is probably ok but could leave some coked up injectors similar to veg oil so rate it just a little less than diesel, the alcohol wil burn, there is plenty of compression but has far less btu potential than diesel so rate it a negative plus there is not much of it, and the nitro will also burn but has even less btu potential than alcohol so rate it as a negative too. So the net effect is that you will have a degraded fuel potential.
Let's look at these fuels. We'll skip the diesel as we all know it is the best fuel possible.
Pure alcohol at best is about 99% plus 1% water or there about, nothing you can do about that. Great fuel, but you need about 25-35 % more volume to equal gasoline for heat content. The real advantage comes because you can use extreme compression ratios with alcohol. 14 to maybe 16 to 1, more under ideal conditions. When running supercharged you don't get nearly the critical detonation. It's easy to run untill you get to the ragged edge. You can burn pistons very nicely however. I've done it in the funny car days. Never the less great fuel used under the right conditions.
Nitromethane carries a good deal of oxygen with it as noted by Mike D. However it takes 3 to 1 air fuel ratios sometimes even less to make it work. It take a huge magneto to make heavy loads burn. Today's top fuel guys use twin 44 amp mags to light it. In fact if it doesn't light you get a hydraulic loc and boom!! as there is so much fuel and so little air to compress that it just goes off by self detonation. Greatly simplified but this is what happens.
Now for mixing nitro and alcohol. We ran blown alcohol funny cars for a long time. The day came when there was the desire to make like a top fuel car so we began adding nitro. Up to about 25% all it did was smell like nitro and there was very little power gained. At 50% there were marked flames from the pipes especially at night and a significant power gain. At 75 % the nitro began being the fuel and the alcohol became the additive. It took 70 degrees advance in the mag and a huge volume increase from the injector pump to really make it work. This was on a relatively high compression motor too. It toasted a few pistons so we lowered the compression and became a top fuel car. It was worth about .6 sec and 25 mph at the time. This put us inthe middle of the field with the top fuel cars but it also added emensely to the cost of operation in burned pistons, cracked heads, split cylinder walls, and broken rods. All common to the ranks of top fuel.
I'm sure there are plenty of tractor pullers running diesel motors on alcohol. Works good if you can get the fuel mix right and get the volumn right. Plenty of compression is there. I frankly don't know a lot about the techniques here so I'm not even going to speculate.
Now one last thing...If you are going to inject model fuel by means of blowing it in the intake like a propane or meth injection system, frankly I think you may cause some problems. The alcohol will burn, ethanol and methanol are close enough not to matter much, the castor oil will be ok, it will burn but not real cleanly, the nitro will be higher content now so it might cause some detonation which would not be good. The whole thing would be rather expensive. $15-$25 per gallon, not readily available everywhere and you would need quite a bit to do much good so I think I'd leave it to a water/meth system and be done with it. Possibly a propane system.
It's great to experiment so I don't want to stifel that but just be aware of some potential problems.
Now if you want to just stick the inlet to the lift pump in a gallon of 60% nitro model fuel, have someone handy with a video camera and lets see the results!!!
As for nitro in the Cummins. Putting it in the tank will be almost useless and is very likely to cause come corrosion due to the alcohol. Here are some numbers...
Assume 20 gallons of #2 mixed with 1 gallon of 20% nitro model fuel.
95.20% diesel
.96% nitro
.96% castor oil (may be less as most model fuels use blends.)
2.86% alcohol
_____________
99.98 total (due to round off)
I think most of us would complain bitterly if we got diesel with almost 3% alcohol in it. With exception of very very cold weather. Even normal winter fuel doesn't have this. If you look at additive bottles they say "contains no alcohol".
What's the result??
The diesel will burn nicely, the castor oil is probably ok but could leave some coked up injectors similar to veg oil so rate it just a little less than diesel, the alcohol wil burn, there is plenty of compression but has far less btu potential than diesel so rate it a negative plus there is not much of it, and the nitro will also burn but has even less btu potential than alcohol so rate it as a negative too. So the net effect is that you will have a degraded fuel potential.
Let's look at these fuels. We'll skip the diesel as we all know it is the best fuel possible.
Pure alcohol at best is about 99% plus 1% water or there about, nothing you can do about that. Great fuel, but you need about 25-35 % more volume to equal gasoline for heat content. The real advantage comes because you can use extreme compression ratios with alcohol. 14 to maybe 16 to 1, more under ideal conditions. When running supercharged you don't get nearly the critical detonation. It's easy to run untill you get to the ragged edge. You can burn pistons very nicely however. I've done it in the funny car days. Never the less great fuel used under the right conditions.
Nitromethane carries a good deal of oxygen with it as noted by Mike D. However it takes 3 to 1 air fuel ratios sometimes even less to make it work. It take a huge magneto to make heavy loads burn. Today's top fuel guys use twin 44 amp mags to light it. In fact if it doesn't light you get a hydraulic loc and boom!! as there is so much fuel and so little air to compress that it just goes off by self detonation. Greatly simplified but this is what happens.
Now for mixing nitro and alcohol. We ran blown alcohol funny cars for a long time. The day came when there was the desire to make like a top fuel car so we began adding nitro. Up to about 25% all it did was smell like nitro and there was very little power gained. At 50% there were marked flames from the pipes especially at night and a significant power gain. At 75 % the nitro began being the fuel and the alcohol became the additive. It took 70 degrees advance in the mag and a huge volume increase from the injector pump to really make it work. This was on a relatively high compression motor too. It toasted a few pistons so we lowered the compression and became a top fuel car. It was worth about .6 sec and 25 mph at the time. This put us inthe middle of the field with the top fuel cars but it also added emensely to the cost of operation in burned pistons, cracked heads, split cylinder walls, and broken rods. All common to the ranks of top fuel.
I'm sure there are plenty of tractor pullers running diesel motors on alcohol. Works good if you can get the fuel mix right and get the volumn right. Plenty of compression is there. I frankly don't know a lot about the techniques here so I'm not even going to speculate.
Now one last thing...If you are going to inject model fuel by means of blowing it in the intake like a propane or meth injection system, frankly I think you may cause some problems. The alcohol will burn, ethanol and methanol are close enough not to matter much, the castor oil will be ok, it will burn but not real cleanly, the nitro will be higher content now so it might cause some detonation which would not be good. The whole thing would be rather expensive. $15-$25 per gallon, not readily available everywhere and you would need quite a bit to do much good so I think I'd leave it to a water/meth system and be done with it. Possibly a propane system.
It's great to experiment so I don't want to stifel that but just be aware of some potential problems.
Now if you want to just stick the inlet to the lift pump in a gallon of 60% nitro model fuel, have someone handy with a video camera and lets see the results!!!
