justinp20012500

What is the diameter of the groove that needs to be cut in the head. I am having a machine shop do an oring job to my spare head and they have never done one to a cummins before. Just done lots on race cars.

So....

What is the Diameter of the groove? (How much larger then the bore)

Size and material of the wire?

This will be used with a stock HG setup.

Thanks,

Justin-

justinp20012500

Well,

Since I have a few 24v ISB heads I guess I can screw a few up experimenting ...

What about the kit from Van Haisley??? He supplies the gasket and the fire rings. I guess I would just have to cut the groove in the head and the block??

Dr. Evil

Id really suggest that you dont have someone experiment by doing your head....get someone thats done lots of them - that way, they probably wont bugger the job up. Pay the little extra for experience - it'll be worth it.

joefarmer

You may want to consider what you're asking here... You're asking all of us to do the expensive research for you. There's $1000's of dollars of heads that were torn up in determining the proper way to oring a head. That money gets recovered in selling oringed heads and oringing services.

I know the oring sizes, but I paid good money to have mine done by a shop that has invested plenty of time and money. If you want, I can give you their name and number. Or, for the right price, I'll sell you my truck and you'll have purchaced the knowledge? Sorry I sound like a jerk, but it costs money to do research.

brandon.

gunracer1

well i have seen many o ringed, fire ringed and all kinds of different setups. and even as broke as i am, i have decided to send my head to piers. he seems to have the best luck with them holding together. i have buddies that have o ringed many a big block chevy and dodge's but i don't want to risk a head finding out if it will hold.

justinp20012500

Wheres the fun in that????

I like breaking stuff and making it better... Who knows maybe I should cut a groove and oring my weed eater head first, maybe mill the head enough to get enough compression to light diesel...

BigBlue

duner

check this out. i think it should answer you question to a fairly close degree. scroll down near the bottom of the page for the part on the o-ring. i really can't believe people are hiding the size of a **** o-ring from you because they think it's top secret high dollar information. they must send guards in the kits when you order them so they can keep you from measuring them.




http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jpontys/cummins.html

justinp20012500

Kinda funny huh???

When I made a program on the burn table to make the flanges for the my twin kit I emailed one guy the program so he could make his too. I didn't charge him anything. (By the way JR, as soon as the parts are in for the burn table I will send you the HX flanges at no charge, I am very sorry that it has taken so long. If I can find the 3.5 floppy with the program I would be happy to send the program to you.)

I posted the complete process in making a triple disk convevter with pics of the internals and everything on TDR. (Dave Goerend is awesome with his helping people as well as Patty @ Haisley, by the way thank you very much for the info and putting up with me today. I now know where I am going to buy my gasket and fire rings along with studs. Thank youy again)

I am all for helping people.

The new thing I am working on is flow rates compared to injector HP... That is a brain scratcher. I have flow tested some of the Jammers and DD Extrude honed ones, just need a few more sets to test.

I am not aout there looking to make money (I like my day job too much) or steal peoples ideas, just looking to gain more knowledge and possibly help someone like myself.

infidel

justinp20012500

I think the diameter of that one is about 6.5" It must not be to scale.

Don M

O-rings are low invasive and hold combustion pressure well. Provided you get the installation correct. Either in the head or the block. In the block is my first choice but just not practical in all cases.

O-ring diameters are not really secret, but the diameter used is ultimately decided by the builder and the application. Popular sizes are .041" .051" and .059"

I have used all three and even another size when needed or the application or scenerio called for. The material used for the ring itself is generally a stainless alloy. I use a special alloy I found to be the ultimate solution, but have used a 302, 316, and 316L. They have a yield strength of anywhere from 30-90 Ksi depending on temper.

O-rings can always use a stock gasket in a pinch or if the truck is sold to a non hotrodder type. He can have anyone just replace a gasket in basically the same manner as stock.

Fire rings require a larger groove, and use a stock gasket with the grommets and/or stock combustion seal water jet cut out. If you have a failure, you will be required to get another water jet cut gasket. Not the end of the world, but not as easy as running to Cummins to grab a stocker either.

Once you use a fire ring...you can never go back to anything else. Unless you replace the head or the block.

Studs are not studs. ARP makes the best solution so far. An opinion from experience.

Gaskets are not gaskets either. Cylinder head preparation is not all the same. Surface finish from an overwhelming number of machine shops is sub standard for high performance use. You may get away with it in a mild application. The Storm Vulcan and other broach type cutters using carbide inserts generally cut the surface too rough. A surface grinder large enough for a Diesel head is hard to find. Kwikway makes a few large models but most shops dont have them because they are so large in footprint and take up lots of floor space.

On the injector comment, I can tell you that flow rate has little to do with power. I can have 3 nozzles all with the same flow rate all make different HP. Some as far apart as 80 HP even though they hydraulically flow the same.

To the guy who polished the rod beams. They will now need to be re shot peened to get back to the original surface crack resistance they were before you started.



Don~

justinp20012500

Thanks for the reply.

I do have a few heads laying around so I will have a few options.

When I spoke with Haisleys they said they use a stock cummins gasket with a depression pressed in the fire ring portion to lay the ring on the gasket then lower the head down.

I would like to have a conversation with you regarding the head studs.

I have researched a little regarding the toque patern and sequence with motor oil/ARP moly Lube and have a few questions to clear up.

I do trust the machine shop doing the head work. They have done their fair share of 700ci + rat motors running oring and twin centrifuge (spl) chargers with great success.


Thanks again,

Justin-

duner

NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. not just about horsepower, but brainpower as well.