Is a cb radio the same thing as a two way radio? I looking to get a radio for out in the bush, just wondering what to get.

 

It's a type of two way radio, but it is near useless in a lot of cases. There are probably better choices. Where are you located, and what specific need are you trying to fill? How far do you need to communicate, and with whom?

 

Best 2-way in my opinion is nextel's push to talk thingamajigger. My company gives all the employee's nextels. Can talk to anyone pretty much anywhere anytime. No cell phone capabilities, but dead useful.

 

Don't those use the cell network though? rendering them useless in the bush.


phox

 

I'm a rig welder up in northen British Columbia. Lots of work is done out on lease roads where someone can get lost easily. People always say they use two way radios for directions. Can a CB radio talk to one of those hand held radios you buy at cosco, or radio shack?

 

CBs can only talk to other CBs, legally anyway. They can't talk at all to the hand helds you reference, if they are what I think they are. I am assuming they are FRS or GMRS radios (Family Radio Service or General Mobile Radio Service), which use frequency modulation (FM), while CBs use amplitude modulation (AM).

Since you are in Canada and are looking for survival/emergency communications equipment, you need to get advice from Canadians who are up there in that part of BC with you -- and are familar with the conditions you will be using the equipment in, and most importantly, who might be available for you to contact, should the need arise. Find out what they are using, and what the licensing requirements are, if any.

Each country has its own rules and regulations. Advice from the US may not apply in Canada. Laws, frequencies, and even terminology may differ. Be cautious. You probably should talk to a two way radio shop up there. They should know what would work best for your situation.

BTW, I drove down through BC years ago with a CB. I couldn't hear anybody who was more than a mile or two away, so most of the time, I didn't hear a thing.

 

We tried CBs on our farm for a while but they were a pain, we later tried the FRS hand held radio's and they worked good but only had a range of a mile or two. Two years ago we bought a used two way radio setup complete with a repeater and 40' tower which has been worlds better than the cheap setups but even with a good repeater and a tall tower your probably going to be limited to 30-40 miles from the tower at the most depending on the ground terrain. With the two way radio's your also limited to communicating to people on the same frequency so all the radio's have to be programed to work together.

 

those FRS radios really only have line of sight range. once out get out in the bush, they would pretty much be useless. same with CB radios. CB's work well for communicating with in a group, but if your by your self, (which any experienced off roader will say is a no no), and you need to call for a rescue, the CB would be worthless.

the other solution, not a quick one, but probly the best, would be to get a Amateur Radio (Ham) license and go that route. speaking from experience, (licensed ham since 2005), the best 2 way radio out there, short of a Police/Fire radio, is a ham radio.

however the ham radio is not a immediate or cheap solution either. you would have to study, take a class, (usually 1 day only), take a test, then wait for your license to come in the mail. a basic 2 meter (144 mhz) radio can be had for about $150.

 

He is in the Canadian north woods. For a ham ticket with 2 meter privileges to do him any good, there would have to be repeaters within range of his operating area, which isn't garanteed in the boonies, although there might be coverage where he is. He would have to find out. HF mobile combined with 2 meters would probably be more useful.

Canandian licensing rules are different than the US, so I'm not sure about your example. But he is probably looking for something a little simpler than getting a ham ticket, anyway.

 

Obviously you have never used PFB radios.

 

I think his situation is fairly simple while the solutions are rather involved. First he is looking for a radio that can secure help if he gets into trouble. Well that trouble needs to come from as close as possible. Why would he need the world wide range of Ham?

The other hand helds as stated are highly specific. It is unlikely someone else would just happen to be within range on precisely the same frequency.

I believe a CB would be his best choice. The CB does not need a repeater for range. With good antenna's and a solid match, based upon location, he should be good for 10-12 miles. If he gets an SSB radio, he will have 3 times the available channels and several times the power - stock. On SSB 20-50 miles is easy. When the 'skip' is working I have talked to people in the midwest and one guy who claimed to be on a boat 300 miles SSW of Hawaii, I am in California.

The other big plus of the CB is that it is non-specific. Anyone with a CB is able to communicate with you unlike some of the other radios that would have to be set to his frequency. It has also been my experience that people in a given area tend to use certain channels. It is possible to pass through an area and hear nothing because the people in that area are simply on a different channel. For example if they were on SSB lower 14, a CB on regular 14 or upper 14 would not hear them. Further, some countries use FM frequencies (England) not AM like the USA.

As he works various areas it would not be difficult to learn the local channels. I am unaware of Canadian law but he may have the option of adding a linear. With a couple of hundred watts he should certainly be able to reach someone.

Minus the linear he could install a good system for very little money. The most important part is the antenna. Many of the radios have their genisis with the same handful of manufacturers anyway.

 

Ill say it again. He needs to talk to locals with a radio background. He's working in a remote area of BC.

Most CB installations are junk, since most CB users seem to mount their antennas right next to the vehicle's sheet metal, which severely attenuates the signal. You are suggesting a linear for someone who asked if CB is the same a two way? You can't be serious.

 

yes you are right. i didnt notice his location, and now that you mention it a mobile HF rig would be more useful for remote areas than a 2m rig.

like i said a Ham ticket isnt the simplest or the cheapest by any means, but his chances of reaching some one would be better with a Ham rig.

i have used one, but it has been 3 years, and we rarely left the city where the main repeater was located. so they arent that good huh?

 

I am most definitely serious! As stated the antenna match is critical. Most CB installations are 'junk' because the person doing it just bolts it on and hopes for the best. The system MUST be properly matched for optimum performance. Most installers are satisfied at 2.0 or below. I like to shoot for perfection on my matches. A lot can go into an excellent match.

"Most CB users seem to mount their antennas right next to the vehicle's sheet metal, which severely attenuates the signal".

Excuse me? The vehicle's sheet metal is the GROUND PLANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is what relects the signal from the antenna. When an antenna is matched it is actually being matched to the 'GROUND PLANE" not to the radio! The radio itself is almost immaterial. It need only be in good shape and any radio will perform well when connected to a well matched system. For an excellent match you want lots of steel. Aluminum and fiberglass are mediocre by comparison. Where would you suggest an antenna be mounted..........On a wooden stick?

"You are suggesting a linear for someone who asked if CB is the same a (AS?) two way".

I suggested the possibility of a linear (If legal) because MORE POWER = MORE RANGE! If he can transmit 20-50 miles @ 12 watts on SSB, what could he do with 50 watts, 100 watts or 200 watts? I have done 20-30 miles on standard channels at night in the city. My radios have been peeked and tweeked. The one I am referring to produces 12 watts with 20 watts on SSB.

If CB is not "TWO WAY", then what is it? To the best of my knowledge it's only function is 'two way' communication. In the United States it is illegal to transmit music or re-broadcast a commercial station. So, you tell me, what is the function of CB?

I read once the 'Walkie Talkies' and field radios used by the U.S. Military in WW2 transmitted on the frequencies now used for CB. Was that two way communication?

What will work best for this guy is whatever is most commonly used in that region. There is an excellent chance that could be CB. The primary reason being cost. In a rural setting, to be effective, a communication system needs the greatest number of participants.

You expressed an elitest view of radio while demonstrating no understanding of antenna systems. The antenna is absolutely CRITICAL. It's like my father used to say about stereo systems: "Never skimp on the speakers. You can buy lesser components and they will sound decent through good speakers. However, if you buy lousy speakers it won't matter how good the components are - the system will sound mediocre." CB radio, antenna quality and match work exactly the same way.

You have never set up a CB antenna system and you do not know what a ground plane is. That's fine. You happen to be interested in a different segment of the market - fine. But, do not trash that which you know nothing about.

 

First, do not presume to state what I have or have not done. You have no idea of what I have or have not done.

Second, before launching a diatribe at me, please take the time to actually read what I wrote. I stated that CB was a type of two way radio. I did not state that it was not a two way radio.

Third, I stated "next to the sheet metal," not on to the sheet metal. There is a difference. Any antenna that is mounted next to the sheet metal, will radiate directly into the ground plane, usually for a foot or two of its length, sometimes more. Think bumper mounted on a pick up, as just one example. I don't care how well matched the antenna is, the signal will be severely compromised, because much of it will be coupled directly to ground.

Fourth, the antenna/ground plane combination is matched to the transceiver. The antenna is not simply matched to the ground plane. When the term "antenna tuned to the vehicle," or the like is used, it refers to matching the impedance of the antenna system to that of the transceiver. If the impedances aren't matched the VSWR will be unacceptably high, and transmitted power will be reflected back at the transceiver. The received signal will be similarly affected.

By the way, just because an antenna has a low VSWR and is a good match doesn't mean if necessarily will provide effective communications. Remember, a dummy load is usually a 100% match, and it won't get out at all. I have seen more than one "perfectly matched" antenna turn out to be about as effective as a dummy load. In fact, an antenna that has been "tuned" to a VSWR of 1:1 across the entire band should be immediately suspect.

Fifth, what your daddy had to say about stereos is completely irrelavent to this thread. So is what you "read" about the military.

Six, you completely missed the point when I questioned why you would suggest a linear for someone who had to ask if a CB was a two way radio. A linear adds a significant degree of complexity to something that the OP clearly has no expertise in whatsoever. Added complexity equals added difficulty, which doesn't help the OP at all.

Seven, linear amplifiers are illegal for use with CBs in both the US and Canada, so that suggestion is a non starter.

Eight, effective communications in rural areas are dependent on many factors, not just the number of people who happen to be on a given frequency or particular radio service. In mountainous terrain, which is likely what the OP has to deal with in BC, repeaters are usually required. CB laws do not permit repeaters, which for practical reasons, are usually found only on VHF or UHF systems.

Nine, I'll assume you are located in the US, since you call yourself Doctor Detroit. If you have a CB radio that produces 12 watts of carrier power and 20 watts SSB PEP, it would seem to be illegal. Since you give a different figure for SSB, it follows that the 12 watts is the AM rating. FCC regulations permit no more than four watts carrier power for AM and 12 watts for SSB. Your "tweaked" radio violates these regulations, which means it is illegal for you to use it.

Ten, unfortunately, CB, in the US at least, is overrun with scofflaws and ham wannabes, many of whom are foul mouthed losers running illegal linears, usually grossly overdriven causing splatter and all manner of spurious modulation products wreaking havoc on legitimate users of nearby frequency bands. It is the last radio service I would want to have to depend on in an emergency.