Main disadvantage of that level of timing is HG stress. When you bump the timing up that far, the HG sees a LOT more strain. You're going to have to invest in some headwork.

Depending on RPM, you'll need about 70psi of reasonably cool boost to keep 600hp happy. If you are doing a GSK and want to hit 600hp at higher RPM (say 3500) you can go as low as 55psi, IF it is cool, clean, efficient boost and you clear up all the smoke.

 

IMO you cant make a 600hp DD 12V with a single turbo.
With that said your acceptable levels of smoke may be much different than mine? Even with twins you must be careful at low boost situations if you don't want to turn the lights out at a intersection. For me 60# boost = 1 to 1 for TIP and 1250* I would guess the hp in the low 5s and that's all the air I have. At that its to hot to tow really heavy in the hilly area I live in but I rarely ever have to. My plate is slid back almost as far as it can go so if I need to tow heavy I can pull it back a wee bit more. If I push it full forward I hit 70psi and peg the pyro before I get out of second gear so I'm guessing that hp around the 600 your looking for. For air I have a Piers modified 35/14 and a 26cm 3B and need every bit of it for less hp than what your shooting for. Just my $.02

 

Ok...a lot of broad suggestions, except TXdiesel, with how to achieve this goal. Maybe we should refocus this thread with two options: A Single Turbo 600hp Daily Driver Recipe and a Twin Turbo 600hp Daily Driver Recipe.

For example:
Single Turbo 600hp Driver Recipe:
What injectors (size and brand)
What type of head work (which springs, porting, oring kit, etc.)
What cam (would a cam change eliminate some head work or
What type of pump work (recommended house, details on what to do)
What size GSK (and whos kit seems the best)
Which Turbo (size and brand)
Timing (where to set it)
Cam plate
And any other little details.

Then do the same for a Twin Turbo Recipe. So at the end of this tread, we have collectively come up with a few recipes on how anyone could build a 12V into a 600hp daily driver.

I guess where I am going...is we all can rattle off the top of our heads, exactly what a 12V guy can do, to get 350-375hp...timing, cam plate, injector size, exhaust, gsk, and air cleaner. And boom...you are there. Lets put together a detailed list of what to get and do, to get 600hp...which will include some of the above for a 350-375hp range, but of different size and brand...plus...details on what should be done for headwork, pumpwork, size of cam (if necessary), turbo or twins size, etc.

There are a few 12V guys, money aside, that would love to be able to order the parts they need, have some of their existing parts worked on, and assemble the whole package...do a little tuning...and boom...you got 600hp!

 

Contact Bobcat698 for the recipe on 600 hp with a single charger. His dyno was 570 with the tires smokin on the rollers. I don't know if he daily drives it anymore, but he used to before going through motor with a fine toothed comb.

Think about it, you are asking a 5.9L engine to produce the power 15L big rig engines do. You are going to need all the air you can get, and fuel to burn. I don't think there is a certain setup for a guaranteed 600 hp either way.

Anyways, look for a twins setup readily available from ATS, II, Piers and so on. Biggest sticks, large cam but not too aggressive, fully ported and polished, 4k gsk kit for the extra rpm to make the power and so on. Specifics on this type of stuff are hard due to the fact that no truck engines react the same to mods. I would suggest calling up a couple of the hi-po shops and getting a list from them. It's very doable, I just can't see a single setup being correct for every truck.

 

ddp4's
tuned 160 with 215 cam (460+cc's) Full cut dv's 100 plate 17mm rack travel
4k gsk
25* timing
66/71 s300 (htt pro 66)
oringed head stock bolts
60lb springs
upgrade fuel supply system (a fass will work)

setup above produced 610 fuel only and 620 with water meth on dunbars dyno at smokin the bluegrass fall dyno event by a good friend (cousin billy)
daily driven 80+ miles a day, 19mpg

my set up is a little different and it hasent been on the rollers yet.

fly cut marine pistons(14.5:1 compression)
ddp4's
tuned 913 (465cc's)
30* timing
s400 turbo(from kta)
camshaft (from kta)
aeromotive custom fuel supply 50 psi pressure regulated after injection pump
hasiley fire ringed head gasket and 60 psi springs with titanium retainers/ hardened keepers (grooves cut by cousin billy)
cummins girdle, cummins fluid damper
balanced rotating assmebly

my motor has gotten 18mpg consistantly since built with 4:10 gears it white smoke on startup due to compression and timing, but once warm runs clean and even with the s400 it dosent smoke a lick until the throttle is hammered. if you set up your afc right you can easily drive a 12v smoke free.

it has been dynod on a gtech(by kta) and showed 580hp at 3000 rpm but we couldnt keep the tires hooked up so were guessing low to mid 600's

 

Wanna12V Thanks. I know it is a doable task, and with the right tuning and correct component selection, we can achieve this.

I work with a guy that built a 656hp (dyno proven) daily driver, which pulls on the weekends. What is his recipe for this achievement...I will let you all know.

I have seen some of Bobcats videos...he would be an excellent source. I encourage him to post some real life experience, to give us an idea of what is required to build a 600hp daily driver. If I PM him, everyone else loses out.

 

thats weird, i also talked to htt about a 62/71/13, and i talked to them for about 45 minutes, and they told be that the 62/13 would be way out of it efficent range with even 500 hp running through it?? they told me that i would need at least a 66/14 for 600 hp, and for 700 hp, they told me that i would be better off with a large set of twins, and even then it still wouldnt be streetable? im also in the process of building a high hp street truck, and most of the shops that ive talked to said that it cant be done, and the others told me that i was out of my mind for wanting anything like that for anything other then pulling.

 

Does any of the HTT guys visit the site? At Indy I talked to a HTT rep, and he told me a 62/13 s/s sounded right for this project. Also Garmon (Garmon Diesel) said that was what he would reccommend. I really don't want the expense of the twins, not to mention the space it will take up, if I can get a single to work.

 

they are right

the truck can only be streetable, or trackable, or towable.. Something or another has got to give if you wanna have a truck that will hit 700 horses on fuel only. Heck im at 500 on fuel only and at times its a PITA to drive.. cause of the smoke... Again tho i need tuning..

With a 12 valve u cannot have ur cake and eat it too..... theres no way, unless u spray.... Im stickin with fuel only... I see ur goal as out of reach... belive me it gets harder to do after a certain HP... i myself am seein that roadblock...

Rick

 

i like the way you think rick...

 

Thanks for everyone's input. I joined this site two years ago, and I have learned alot. But, I see things have changed. I started this thread with the hope that "we" could put together a package that would produce a 600hp daily driver, and it seems the majority of posts say it cannot be done. Why?

Is it because you have been told it can't be done? Or maybe some vendor told you it can't be done. If five posts say it is impossible, and five other posts say they have done it...which five do you believe?

Now I ask this...how many of the individuals that posted to the thread, are actually producing 600hp? Maybe one...wanna12v! Therefore, he is the only one that can honestly say it is impossible, yet he didn't.

If you believe something cannot be done...just look back as little as two years ago, when a #0 plate was only for pulling...and ask yourself now, how many guys are running this plate as a "daily driver"

I started this thread as an opportunity for all of us to learn and put together a list of what is required to build a 600hp daily driver. Don't submarine this thread by posting it is not possible...it is. Is it without some kind of sacrifice? Get real...of course this kind of hp will sacrifice something...but it can be done!

 

Check this thread out:

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...orsepower+list

 

I am going for 600 on fuel only myself and I think I am not THAT far away. I think if I added some .022 DV's and a 66mm turbo (Pro Street66 or S400 hybrid)and bumped my timing to 20*-22* I would be there since I am adding a 3-angle valve grind, 60lb springs and have been porting and polishing my head for the last 2 weeks. I am also putting my PDR camshaft in Once I get this stuff squared away I want to add N2O and hopefully get to 750+.

 

Mr. Suzuki:

I commend you on starting the thread to get opinions and input from the Members on a 600 H.P. buildup and also feel your "frustration" on the repsonses not providing everything you were looking for! As you already pointed out, DTR member "wana12v" did give you some good input. One thing I would add is that asking ten (10) DTR Members here a question can give you ten different answers on almost any subject!

Like "wana12v" and a few others here, I have been on a steady "buildup" of my 1996 Dodge CTD, 4X4 12 valve almost since the day I bought it. At present, I sit at 809 H.P./1496 TQ.......AND the truck IS a daily driver! But not long ago, (about two years ago) I was at a little over 600 H.P. and can tell you that the truck was driven daily back then too, but was not as fast as it is now.

I would agree with what "wana12v" has posted for you on the "ingredients" or components/parts needed to get a Cummins 5.9 12 valve to 600 H.P. The only thing I did not see on his list which I highly would recommend is some type of a water injection system (Snow, Cool Mist, Painless, Scheids). I can tell you that even at 600 H.P. I DEFINITELY had EGT issues and they were serious under WOT conditions. At the 800 H.P. mark, my Snow System was NOT enough and I had to upgrade to Scheids Water System which provides much more water pressure with more nozzles.

I also know from experience that as Rick pointed out, the smoke CAN be an issue with the 12 valve engines, but if the components are properly matched up and the engine built correctly, that smoke can be controlled with ones foot! My smoke was pretty bad at 600 H.P. but nowhere near as bad as it is now under WOT. Here is a video to give you an idea of how bad my smoke can be at 800 H.P. from a recent dyno event this spring:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...36276784&hl=en

To help you out somemore, when I was at the 600+ mark with my truck, this is a short list of some of my internal parts/components. You will see that it is very close to the list "wana12v" has given you. Scheid Diesel has done all the work on my engines since the beginning:

Fly-cut Scheid Arias Pistons (Lowered Compression)
14mm studs and Firerings in Block
Girdled Block
Scheid Tuned 180 Pump (191 DV's, Custom Plate, 450cc's fuel, Active Aneroid
4,000 GSK
Scheid Custom Camshaft
60lb. valve springs (Intake and exhaust)
Scheid Custom Injectors
Scheid Twin Turbos (Top: HX-40/16 Bottom: Schwitzer B-2)
22 degrees of timing

Hope this helps you some. I also wanted to let you know that I just got done driving my 96' all the way from eastern N.C. to Denver, Colorado (and back)to the "ATS Truckfest" putting on some 3,500 miles roundtrip and got as much as 18.2 MPG,...........IF,..... I kept my speeds at about 70-75 MPH! Riding "straight and level" down the Interstate then (at 600 H.P.) and even now I can keep the smoke at a pretty clean level as long as I watch how much pressure I put on the accelerator. There are other DTR Members that have been behind my 96' on the Interstates and highways that can back up what I am saying here and tell you this is the absolute truth about my truck and the smoke level etc.

Hang in there Mr. Suzuki and I know you can get your truck to where you want it.

Good luck to you in your buildup!

--------
John_P

 

John
When I witnessed your truck run it wouldn't smoke out a 2 lane highway....it smoked out a whole ZIPCODE

Can't wait till we can roll some more smoke!!

Mr.Suzuki
Even though I own a Ford I have relied on JohnP for advice on fueling(Fass) and Nos and he has always taken the time to help steer me in the right direction.
You are getting some great advice from the members here and you are going about it the right way by asking people that have already been there and done that.
You will be money ahead in the end...good luck on your build!!