Nope, just the head needs to be pulled. Its a big job, however. And the chances are _very_ good that your existing head will be done for, with probable deep cracks in the valve seat area. We've had a few o-ringing jobs done by Don M and ABS Performance (they do alot of NHRA top fuel heads) up here, and we have yet to find an existing head that isn't cracked badly enough to make it worthless.

IMHO, fire ringing is a waste of money right now. When a head is done properly, with grooves cut on a machine, versus an o-ringing tool, the o-rings will easily hold 70 PSI or more of boost. There have been as many, if not more, fire ring failures in the past 6 months than proper o-ring jobs.

Rod

 

Rod:

I am surprised to hear you say what you did about the
"firering" system for our heads. I was under the impression
that most all of the big pickup truck sled pullers in the
Midwest are now using this system! I have heard that
Mitchell and his crew don't like them, but thought everyone
else did! Maybe Gene (Sled Puller) will see this post and get
on here to make some comments. As I understand it, the
14mm studs along with a "machined" (not 0-ring tool) groove
and the brass/copper "firering" is capable of holding boost
pressures up to 100+lbs.!!! I beleive that the 12mm studs
with the "o-ring" grooves on the head as you mentioned
will take boost levels up to 75-80lbs. I could be wrong
though! I know that my "stock" 96'12 valve headgasket
with the "stock" Cummins Bolts blew up "Big Time" at
about 60lbs of boost!!

I will do some more checking on what the pullers are using
but I sure thought it was the firering system.

-----------
John_P

 

A street driven truck with upwards of 75 PSI is just fine with a stock headgasket and standard o-rings. Not including Nitrous, methanol or the next flavor of designer drug to come down the pike

If guys go nuts I tell them copper. When implemented properly, you cant blow out a copper gasket.

There are a few secrets in head gasket sealing. Most guys are not willing to let them out.

14mm studs are not for street trucks or engines that are not removed for additional machine work to avoid other pitfalls they can bring. I dont feel like going back and forth on it or even as to why....

Here in Texas weve had no less than 5 trucks with sealing troubles using fire-rings. Most street trucks dont NEED to exceed 75 PSI IMO. Why go radical?

Don~

 

IMO the copper gasket is excellent. It works well but it has to be done properly and the installer has to be VERY meticulous. I have done Fire rings O-rings and copper. The O-rings are the most affordiable and work well. The Fire rings are more expensive and are fine also. The copper....well lets just say when done right it is a done deal. I have ran a copper gasket now for nearly two years.

J.R.

 

Nathan has had great success with his copper gasket as well. Ran the truck hard all last race season and dynoed more combos of stuff than I can remember. No combustion failuers. Some leakies of fluids. This was not from the copper but from the head/deck surfaces not being just right. A common problem.

Holy crap, JR and I agree on something

Don~

 

I can feel the love already.

DB

 

My main reasoning for the Fire rings is I want it done right the first time. If I have to pay a little more for something that isn't going to pop in couple of years then I don't mind.

That's just me though.

DB

 

Sonny, your PM box is full...have a safe trip and don't break the other hand.



Get me a pic of you standing that up on end.

 

I cleaned it out just for you! I will no worries of that (not my hand) standing her up! Now when you say her is that my chick or my sled

 

Both

I did not say 'her' but I meant...her as in ...sled or bride or both.

 

I just read this whole thread and I'm in the same exact boat that DarrelB is in. I'm currently running the set-up thats in my sig, but I want to step-up to Mach 3's and possibly a B-1, or variation of a B-1. Like DarrelB, I want a wastegated turbo to keep the headgasket in place. My HX 35 has good street manners on my current setup, just doesn't flow enough air. Would a BD blow-off valve help to tame the B-1 a bit? TIA

 

Whatever happened to the HX40? Or is that only good for around 350-400 hp?

 

Piers says it's good up to 450 I think, that's just a little small for what I'm wanting. I do know of a truck that has laid down over 500hp with a PDR40 with a 16 housing. It's a good turbo and with Piers' mods a lot tuffer than people give it credit for being.

DB

 

Darrell,
I wouldnt worry about O ringing your head unless you plan to go over 50psi on a regular basis.
I have an O ring setup with stock gasket, and decked head.
I am currently pushing a little antifreeze out of the front, even after a retorque (by the way my original torque was still very tight from 8 months ago).

I would suggest to you to get a new set of head bolts, or just a good re-torque, but be prepaired for bolts to go bad or to just keep stretching.

The HX40 is a good turbo if modified properly, Piers or J.R. could set you up with one.

The HX-50,55 series and siblings seems to be dynoing well and winning truck pulls.
The B1 on the other hand is very tough, but doesnt seem to dyno as well in certain situations (it might just be the lag that hurts it on the dyno).
An interesting side note is that I do not see people posting dyno numbers as often that are users of the B1 series of turbos.
Recently, I have only seen numbers above 500 from drugged trucks.


--Justin

 

_____________________________________________
Quote:

"I am currently pushing a little antifreeze out of the front,
even after a retorque."

_____________________________________________

Heh Justin, I "wonder" why that is happening??
Just kidding buddy!!

I haven' seen you on here in awhile. Must be pretty
busy at Cummins!

Take care.

----------
John_P