signature600

Close Dusty...315K miles, well over 60psi (sometimes over 70psi), stock headgasket and bolts...still

I think the head has rusted on
Chris

RowJ

This approach has been tried before...usually unsucessfully AFAIK!
Run primary drain to the oil pan! Cheap insurance against trouble on a component that's not easy to visually inspect. Do a search... the how-to has been covered several times. Note: drain oil after drilling hole in pan, no matter how careful you are.

RJ

Dusty Ratcliff

isn't it nearly impossible to get a set of twins to blow off at 40psi.???? unless you run an external wastegate, I didn't think many guys had much luck keeping the pressures down with the turbo(s) w/gates only??? I've never ran a set of twins so I'm just speaking from hear say please correct me if I'm wrong, Dusty

Gotlift01

I send those ATS twins back to them and tell them to keep em'!! Go out and buy you a nice set of BD Twins that come with everything you need. Plus they cost less than the ATS ones. I'm not a fan of ATS for a few reasons, but I will keep this nice and won't go into that!!!

~Nick

RowJ

I believe you are correct. An big external wastegate will do it... but than you run the risk of being under fueled for the twins, if you plunb it into the downpipe. If,as is usual, you plumb it into the bottom turbo, not much reduction...I would think.

What some are doing is using pop off valves, which I really don't fully understand. Yes it reduces boost but you still have elevated cylinder pressures and full Turbine Inlet Pressure (drive pressure) working on the head. Just my perspective.

On the BD twins, they recommend against controlling boost by the adjustable secondary (top turbo) wastegate! It creates imbalance and generates lag.

RJ

Mike Holmen

You usually run the secondary turbo with the wastegate at a lower pressure than if you run the turbo in a single configuration. This keeps the drive pressure for twins low and allow the primary turbo to actually work. Spool-up is greatly improved as well. I would use the second drain plug thats just behind the original turbo drain. You just pop out the plug and install a new drain tube. This applies to us 24v boys though. Twins is a pretty easy install. My PDR twins had no instructions either. Piers just sent me about 20 pics that helped. Is the ATS twins using a ball bearing turbos or they use bushing?

signature600

You're exactly right!...but with a big enough wastegate on the top charger, you can basically take away all the exhaust going through it, and make the big charger do all the work. I don't know how ATS' setup is, but I do know that it's a disasterously comlicated LOOKING setup. I also know their big charger is too small for big HP...650+. For the price you paid, it's not big enough!

On my HX40-16/B2 twins, I couldn't keep the boost below 60 without using the pop-off valves...which does exactly what it sounds like. It lets the boost out of the pipes over a certain psi...problem is, you exhaust is still pushing the boost, but it's not getting to the cylinders. Like RJ said, it causes high drive pressures by doing this!

On the next set of twins for the 98, I'm gonna use two external gates...complicated, yes, but if I only wan't 65psi, I can have it...if I only want my primary to make 35psi, I can do that! It makes for the most efficient setup

Chris

signature600

Mike, the 1997 trucks may or may not have the second drain. Either way, I would make a spot for one if it doesn't have it. 1 drain is asking for trouble!

Also, as far as I know, the ATS twins are their 2000 charger on top, with a ridiculous loking wastegate contraption hooking it to their 5000 charger. Both bushing type. The 2000 is a S300G I'm sure they've tweaked (for what they charge, I hope at least), and the 5000 ony has a 71mm wheel...a little small IMHO!

Chris

12valve

So, wouldnt it work to lead the external wastegate from before the little charger into the 5" exhaust (going out of the BIG turbo.)

so it would wastegate both turbos! or wouldnt that work?
i have been thinking of 1 wastegate on each charger, even thinking about biting the bullet and buy head studs, and o-ring da head!

signature600

Yes that would work...but why waste valuable drive energy. Wastegating both chargers allows you to keep both of them at max efficiency.

Chris

pro puller

My dads 97 has the second drain in the block.Just go to a cummins store & purchase the stock turbo drain that presses into the block & knock the plug out of the rear turbo drain hole in the block & drive the new drain pipe in place & your done.

Kurt

HOHN

ATS doesn't care because they sell so much stuff to less-informed non-forum types off their HEAVY advertising in all the truck and RV mags.

They don't care about YOU because there's always a bigger unsuspecting sucker right behind you waiting to plunk down his hard-earned money.

ATS stuff is decent. But I don't care for them as a business. I feel the same way about Banks stuff. NOt bad stuff, but their business attitude leaves a distaste for them.

Clint Cannon has already made his millions, so I'm not sure he really cares too much about any particular individual transaction. He's got bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

He's a nice enough guy (with a VERY healthy appetite for beer, lol). But when I can buy a TST box from Mark Chapple for $595, and from Clint for $670, why shop with Clint? That ATS sticker is worth $80? At least they aren't rebadging the TST anymore, like they used to-- and THAT was over $700!

ATS has proven to me that they can innovate and develop products as well as Banks or anyone else in the diesel game. Why not do more of that? Where are the dual ball-bearing twins kits, or VGT twins kits? How come a guy in Italy can come up with a programmer like Smarty, but a huge titan like ATS cannot?

ATS is about as good as it gets for one-stop shopping, and from that perspective, I can see why that convenience is worth the higher pricing in many ways. But that doesn't apply to the guy mail-ordering a power module or turbo.

So if you're just looking for a complete package of stuff and want to take your truck from zero to hero with one receipt, then ATS is a good option for sure.

But for mail ordering individual pieces/parts, I'm not sold on them-- ESPECIALLY since so many of their products are rebages or re-selling of items available elsewhere for less money.

jmo-- yours will differ for sure.

95ram

Send them back.

inline6359

from all the wonderful posts i have received i am now kickinhg myself in the EDIT because i bought them. But lets set some thing straight and see if the opinions change. First of all am i being told to send them back because of the product or because of the EDIT service? SEcondle the truck is a daily driver and tows frequently so it is not going to become a dyno monster. all i want for NOW is to hit 400hp put a decent head on it with fire rings and maybe some DV's and thats it. I only plan on struggeling through the 40 psi predicament until nex summer, then i plan to have a head on it. By the time i am done with this truck hopefully by the end of winter the new project truck will be here.


The point is i have the product and i cant send it back. I have the piping coated and they wont take it i bet. And besides i got dicked around by bd more then ats. ATLEAST ATS CALLS ME BACK!!!!! BD flows 1600 cfm and the bd flows like 2400. And i would pay 3900 for bd and paid 4500 for ats. It seems like it was a good purchase even though i had some problems.

Maybe im in denial.

signature600

It's your money...do what you want!

IMHO, the BD's have proven themselves...the ATS chargers "should" work, but there aren't many people running them to give constructive advice! I've always gotten excellent help from BD...but I'll also never deal with ATS, but that's just me! They do have some good products, just too mainstream for me

Good luck, hope you get it figured out
Chris

BTW, I compared the BD's and ATS' because you did...not because these are the only options!