ATS Transmissions?
02-24-2004, 08:05 PM
#16
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There are some more facts that have to be revealed about the transmission that Dargo/Brent has. Originally, Brent purchased ONLY the Torque Converter and Valve Body from ATS. After the VB and T/C were put in, there was reported to be a possible transmission problem (by the dealership/installer).
We sent out a complete transmission (with another converter, and a new valve body already installed in the tranny) at that point at less than 50% off retail price!! To avoid possible warranty issues, we make sure that EVERY transmission leaves ATS in ABSOLUTE perfect condition (dyno'ed Solonoids, dyno'ed Valve Body's, and dyno'ed transmissions happen to EVERY transmission leaving the ATS facility - this allows us to know that every transmission works, throughout all gears, at running temperature, without fail).
After the transmission was installed, it was reported by the technician at the dealership that there was no reverse or 3rd gear. The tech also noted that there was 15 quarts of fluid added to the tranny. This immediately raised a red flag because that tranny holds 18 quarts (very common knowledge). Not to say that it can't happen, but we haven't seen them only hold 15 quarts. If the transmission had an issue with 3rd and/or reverse, the dyno test(s) would have failed miserably! But when EVERY transmission (Ford, GM, and Dodge) is run at operating temperature, in every gear (1st, 2nd, 3rd, OD, and Reverse), for extended lengths of time, it's very difficult to believe that the transmission had a mechanical failure.
We feel, based on this type of failure, that the 3rd gear clutches are burned up. Why this failure happened, we're not sure until we get the tranny back here. Again, that's why we run them on the dyno - to make sure that these issues do not occur.
We spoke to the tech at the dealership this afternoon, and came up with a plan of action to diagnose/repair the transmission. Until we talk to the tech tomorrow, we don't have any more information.
So, after sending out a tranny at less than 50% off retail to help Brent out, and following up and working with the tech at the installer (which Brent picked, which is NOT one of our authorized dealers), and not knowing for sure what the problem is yet, this is the thanks we get.
There is a reason that our transmissions carry a 3 year, 100,000 mile warranty! They are the best on the market, and we stand behind every one of them. If there happens to be an installation error/issue, we make every attempt to work with the dealer/installer to the best of our (and their) ability.
We'll post here when we know more - you can count on it.
Thanks,
Joel Richards
ATS Diesel Performance, Inc.
We sent out a complete transmission (with another converter, and a new valve body already installed in the tranny) at that point at less than 50% off retail price!! To avoid possible warranty issues, we make sure that EVERY transmission leaves ATS in ABSOLUTE perfect condition (dyno'ed Solonoids, dyno'ed Valve Body's, and dyno'ed transmissions happen to EVERY transmission leaving the ATS facility - this allows us to know that every transmission works, throughout all gears, at running temperature, without fail).
After the transmission was installed, it was reported by the technician at the dealership that there was no reverse or 3rd gear. The tech also noted that there was 15 quarts of fluid added to the tranny. This immediately raised a red flag because that tranny holds 18 quarts (very common knowledge). Not to say that it can't happen, but we haven't seen them only hold 15 quarts. If the transmission had an issue with 3rd and/or reverse, the dyno test(s) would have failed miserably! But when EVERY transmission (Ford, GM, and Dodge) is run at operating temperature, in every gear (1st, 2nd, 3rd, OD, and Reverse), for extended lengths of time, it's very difficult to believe that the transmission had a mechanical failure.
We feel, based on this type of failure, that the 3rd gear clutches are burned up. Why this failure happened, we're not sure until we get the tranny back here. Again, that's why we run them on the dyno - to make sure that these issues do not occur.
We spoke to the tech at the dealership this afternoon, and came up with a plan of action to diagnose/repair the transmission. Until we talk to the tech tomorrow, we don't have any more information.
So, after sending out a tranny at less than 50% off retail to help Brent out, and following up and working with the tech at the installer (which Brent picked, which is NOT one of our authorized dealers), and not knowing for sure what the problem is yet, this is the thanks we get.
There is a reason that our transmissions carry a 3 year, 100,000 mile warranty! They are the best on the market, and we stand behind every one of them. If there happens to be an installation error/issue, we make every attempt to work with the dealer/installer to the best of our (and their) ability.
We'll post here when we know more - you can count on it.
Thanks,
Joel Richards
ATS Diesel Performance, Inc.
02-24-2004, 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by Dargo
..... I do intend to update this site on the progress and what ATS is willing to do to help with my positively huge outlay of cash for this deal. Hopefully I will be able to report that ATS steps up to the plate and makes good on their problems that have cost me plenty. If not, I will grudgingly be willing to post enough evidence of me being slaughtered by ATS, including receipts, conversations, technical numbers from the installing master tech etc., that nobody in their right mind would deal with ATS. Needless to say, I really, really, really, hope ATS makes this very bad situation right.
..... I do intend to update this site on the progress and what ATS is willing to do to help with my positively huge outlay of cash for this deal. Hopefully I will be able to report that ATS steps up to the plate and makes good on their problems that have cost me plenty. If not, I will grudgingly be willing to post enough evidence of me being slaughtered by ATS, including receipts, conversations, technical numbers from the installing master tech etc., that nobody in their right mind would deal with ATS. Needless to say, I really, really, really, hope ATS makes this very bad situation right.
I know Clint and he stands behind his stuff 100% You don't need to threaten to "post enough evidence of being slaughtered " to make him do what's right. Clint will do what's right because that his how he does business. What saddens me about this is how unfair it is to Clint and ATS. All you can ask of any person is when something isn't right that they be given a chance to make it right and ATS is doing that. On the other hand ATS is not doing the install work so there is another factor involved here. The repair facility you chose is also a factor. Why not wait until the dust settles before you threaten to post enough evidence "that nobody in their right mind would deal with ATS". Clint doesn't need to be threatened to make him do the right thing. Clint will do what's right because that is how he is. Give him a chance.
Edward
02-24-2004, 09:35 PM
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Joel, I hope you read all of the posts I've entered here. At no point have I stated that ATS transmissions were crap, nor that I have been ripped off. I've only stated the truth. I clearly stated in a post that at first only parts were sent. Those parts didn't work. More parts were sent. Things got worse. An entire unit was sent. Things are no better. You must have missed the part in nearly every post where I very clearly stated that what I was looking for was feedback from content owners of ATS parts / transmissions to ease my concerns after two months without my truck and several thousand dollars later. Joel, READ MY POSTS! You apparently do not know me. If I felt for certain that I was being screwed you would not read my concerns here. You would read them in a court summons.
Your attitude in your post is the first post here that concerns me about your company. Print out my posts. Read them. As I mentioned, you will see that I have been looking for happy ATS customers to ease my concern after spending an unheard of amount on a transmission repair and still not have my truck two months later. If your transmissions are the best on the market and you stand behind them, I should have no problem and the hundreds of people who have read these posts will see how you work through the problems that occur with even the absolute best of products. (If you had read my posts, you would have read this quote from me as well). If you are telling me that you have never had a problem ever with one of your transmissions, well, let's say not many people will believe you.
While you are pointing fingers at the installer, it was pointed out to me that the converter and transmission arrived with some fluid in it where it had been run at your shop. You don't think that perhaps that is why it maybe didn't take the exact amount of fluid you mentioned to fill it do you?
As far as you sending out your tranny at a discount to me, I believe that that was a fair gesture on your part when the ASE Certified master tech. discussed with your people that your converter going bad had sent parts through my transmission likely causing damage. If I did not believe that Clint was trying to be fair with me I would not have agreed to that generous offer. Yes, I did state that it was a generous offer. However, please do get the facts straight, it was not quite 50% off and I did pay the freight both ways. And, with all the parts, labor, shipping each way etc. I am reaching that seven thousand dollar figure for a transmission repair. Are you honestly going to tell me that is a "bargain" transmission job?
So far, most all of the reply posts have been positive and I was feeling good about getting this resolved and my decision to go with ATS right up until I read this post from Joel. Please do post more as you know more Joel. Again, I'd like nothing more than to state that all was taken care of and your product is great. However, do try to get all your facts straight.
Your attitude in your post is the first post here that concerns me about your company. Print out my posts. Read them. As I mentioned, you will see that I have been looking for happy ATS customers to ease my concern after spending an unheard of amount on a transmission repair and still not have my truck two months later. If your transmissions are the best on the market and you stand behind them, I should have no problem and the hundreds of people who have read these posts will see how you work through the problems that occur with even the absolute best of products. (If you had read my posts, you would have read this quote from me as well). If you are telling me that you have never had a problem ever with one of your transmissions, well, let's say not many people will believe you.
While you are pointing fingers at the installer, it was pointed out to me that the converter and transmission arrived with some fluid in it where it had been run at your shop. You don't think that perhaps that is why it maybe didn't take the exact amount of fluid you mentioned to fill it do you?
As far as you sending out your tranny at a discount to me, I believe that that was a fair gesture on your part when the ASE Certified master tech. discussed with your people that your converter going bad had sent parts through my transmission likely causing damage. If I did not believe that Clint was trying to be fair with me I would not have agreed to that generous offer. Yes, I did state that it was a generous offer. However, please do get the facts straight, it was not quite 50% off and I did pay the freight both ways. And, with all the parts, labor, shipping each way etc. I am reaching that seven thousand dollar figure for a transmission repair. Are you honestly going to tell me that is a "bargain" transmission job?
So far, most all of the reply posts have been positive and I was feeling good about getting this resolved and my decision to go with ATS right up until I read this post from Joel. Please do post more as you know more Joel. Again, I'd like nothing more than to state that all was taken care of and your product is great. However, do try to get all your facts straight.
02-24-2004, 10:20 PM
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I just got my stage 5 ATS transmission in a couple of weeks ago, Had it done at Bellflower transmission. all I can say is Both Clint and Bellflower transmission answered all my questions and I was extremely happy with the results. I got the complete transmission even though my orginal tranny had only 39,000 miles on it. The warranty was all I needed and talking to allot of other ATS tranny owners over the last 6 months during my investagation on trannys, know I got the best. Good luck and I know everything will turn out
02-25-2004, 02:21 AM
#21
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Holy smoke, Dargo! First of all good luck to get this resolved.
I think that you have had your reasons to go public with that information. I hope that you won't end up having to pay lawyers instead of technicians.
ATS vs DTT is some stormbringer on this (and other boards)- sometimes a question like yours will bring out the fans of brand A to defend their stuff, and the fans of brand B to state that the folks at the factory of brand a need pliers and instructions to put on their trousers.
(Independent of whose tranny you have problems with)
AlpineRAM
I think that you have had your reasons to go public with that information. I hope that you won't end up having to pay lawyers instead of technicians.
ATS vs DTT is some stormbringer on this (and other boards)- sometimes a question like yours will bring out the fans of brand A to defend their stuff, and the fans of brand B to state that the folks at the factory of brand a need pliers and instructions to put on their trousers.
(Independent of whose tranny you have problems with)AlpineRAM
02-25-2004, 04:19 AM
#22
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Clarification: (At least an attempt)
According to a PM from a member I seem inconsistent in my wordings and my opinions on how to treat business transactions and their results. I was also told that this member advised the user of a competitors brand of transmission not to go public with his problem.
Maybe I should have put it a little clearer that I assume that he has his reasons to go public. He is talking about months without truck and about 7k US$- and not being able to drive.
I do think that any customer can, on his own discretion, publish the facts of any business he has with any company, unless a nondisclosure agreement is part of the transaction. IMHO Dargo posted some facts, got some replies, including mine, that gave him a head up or wished good luck.
I don't see any point in my post that bashes ATS-or assumes superiority of another vendor. (The only bad thing is that if I say brand A vs brand B -you may think that I refer to ATS when saying brand A-which is not my intention.)
Again: The above post by me was intended to say "Good Luck" and to express the hope that he'll get a satisfactory conclusion of his problems. That's what I do wish anybody who has a problem with any supplier.
Some people should notice the smiley in the trousers and pliers part. Seriously.
AlpineRAM
According to a PM from a member I seem inconsistent in my wordings and my opinions on how to treat business transactions and their results. I was also told that this member advised the user of a competitors brand of transmission not to go public with his problem.
Maybe I should have put it a little clearer that I assume that he has his reasons to go public. He is talking about months without truck and about 7k US$- and not being able to drive.
I do think that any customer can, on his own discretion, publish the facts of any business he has with any company, unless a nondisclosure agreement is part of the transaction. IMHO Dargo posted some facts, got some replies, including mine, that gave him a head up or wished good luck.
I don't see any point in my post that bashes ATS-or assumes superiority of another vendor. (The only bad thing is that if I say brand A vs brand B -you may think that I refer to ATS when saying brand A-which is not my intention.)
Again: The above post by me was intended to say "Good Luck" and to express the hope that he'll get a satisfactory conclusion of his problems. That's what I do wish anybody who has a problem with any supplier.
Some people should notice the smiley in the trousers and pliers part. Seriously.
AlpineRAM
02-25-2004, 06:37 AM
#23
DTR Founder
Everyone keep it nice please. This includes the cheerleaders getting at Dargo for no reason, and anyone else involved. So far he has posted only his experience so far and looks to me like he's trying to get a situation resolved without being negative. I think at this point since both and and ATS have had a chance to go through this and respond, it's time for them to take it back to the telephone and email to resolve their issues. I would appreciate a report when it's done, however.
02-25-2004, 06:40 AM
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AlpineRAM, I understand your post. After reading hundreds of posts on this board I decided to go ATS. A lot of people obviously do want to express loyalty to their particular brand. Understandable. Unfortunately for me, things have not gone so smoothly. Nobody has told me not to ask for a little piece of mind from others who have used the company I opted to go with here. And, as you hopefully noticed, I am not bashing ATS and am still very hopefull things will get resolved. I am just frustrated at the amount of money and time spent and still not having my truck. I really think anyone would.
I was really looking to see posts like GaryMaines telling me that all is well with his ATS trans. Nobody wants to think that they made a big mistake, and I am not trying my case, if you will, in the court of public opinion. Only stating facts and hoping to hear from others that I didn't make a mistake and my decision was sound.
I was really looking to see posts like GaryMaines telling me that all is well with his ATS trans. Nobody wants to think that they made a big mistake, and I am not trying my case, if you will, in the court of public opinion. Only stating facts and hoping to hear from others that I didn't make a mistake and my decision was sound.
02-25-2004, 08:05 AM
#25
DTR Founder
Dargo, I think at the end of the day you've made a sound decision. I think both sides will have to come to an agreement on what's going on there, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Clint has always taken care of me when I was in trouble. I no longer own my 99, but the tranny in it built by ATS was solid. Just work with them and be cool.
As long as everyone keeps their cool and works on solutions without throwing accusations, you'll end up a satisfied customer.
As long as everyone keeps their cool and works on solutions without throwing accusations, you'll end up a satisfied customer.
02-25-2004, 11:25 AM
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Hi Jack and All! Just wanted to post a quick update. Upon tear down of the ATS transmission, ATS inadvertantly forgot to put in an internal seal and the transmission would not, could not work. As I stated twice before, even the best of companies can make mistakes. Just my luck! It is how they correct their errors that makes a company great. Anyway, with any luck I may actually get my truck today. Hopefully you are right and ATS will will do what is right on the additional costs of removing the transmission again, fixing the problems, and reinstalling the unit. Also, thanks for having a great forum to discuss how to make our diesel toys better!
02-25-2004, 08:21 PM
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Boughtadodge, I'm sort of like you. I'm not wanting to start a war at all either, but it is not possible for it to have passed a dyno test. It never had third gear or reverse due to this missing clutch seal. I guess it must have just slipped through? Stuff happens? Anyway, it is currently being gone through by a 10 year ASE Master tech. that really only does transmissions. He assures me he can make it right. I'll worry about the details later, right now I just really want my truck back. I hope to be finally driving it tomorrow.
02-25-2004, 10:57 PM
#29
Administrator
Dargo:
Sorry to hear about the problems you had.
You asked earlier in the thread "if there was anyone else
on this forum who has used the ATS transmission(s)?"
Well I have two (2) trucks (a 96' Dodge CTD 12 valve and
a 2002 Dodge CTD 24 valve) both of which have the ATS
TripleLok Stage IV Transmissions in them. The ATS tranny
in the 96' 12 valve has over 70,000 very hard miles on it
now and the ATS transmission in the 02' 24 valve has about
25,000 miles on it. Both units have held up very, very well!!
Both of my trucks are at or near 500 H.P. and I tow heavy
and drag race both trucks on a regular basis! Clint Cannon,
and his entire staff are great people to deal with and as
"Stakeman", Edward, Joel and Jack Thorpe has said, if Clint
said he will take care of the problem, then he will!!! Sometime
these types of problems take some time to work out Dargo.
If you have any doubts about Clint's dedication, or his word
to help you out, just contact Keith Livingstone (Rammin On)
at "Forest City Diesel", a "banner" advertiser on this site!
Keith owns a 95' Dodge CTD 4X4 also with an ATS TripleLok
Stage IV transmission. Almost two years ago at the TDR
Diesel Rally in Columbus, Ind. Keith had problems with his
ATS tranny which was later traced to a cracked case by Clint
and his technicians. We were able to get his truck to Scheid
Diesel's shop in Terre Haute, Indiana where Clint and another
ATS technician personally worked on Keith's truck for four (4)
hours to repair it for him!! How do I know that??? Because
I was there watching it happen!! To see the owner of a
business personally tearing down and then rebuilding a
transmission to get one of his customers "back on the road"
spoke volumes to me about the type of person Clint Cannon
is and how he likes to run his business!!
Dargo, I see where you live in Indiana. My units were both installed by Scheid Diesel in Effingham, Illinois, not far from where you live. I know this situation has gone too far now, but I would like to recommend Scheid Diesel to you for future reference. They are an authorized ATS dealer and have been for about two years now. Brian Koester is their main transmission technician and that
is his main responsibility. He is very good at his job and has been doing transmissions for many years!!
Anyway, take care and good luck!!
---------
John_P
Sorry to hear about the problems you had.
You asked earlier in the thread "if there was anyone else
on this forum who has used the ATS transmission(s)?"
Well I have two (2) trucks (a 96' Dodge CTD 12 valve and
a 2002 Dodge CTD 24 valve) both of which have the ATS
TripleLok Stage IV Transmissions in them. The ATS tranny
in the 96' 12 valve has over 70,000 very hard miles on it
now and the ATS transmission in the 02' 24 valve has about
25,000 miles on it. Both units have held up very, very well!!
Both of my trucks are at or near 500 H.P. and I tow heavy
and drag race both trucks on a regular basis! Clint Cannon,
and his entire staff are great people to deal with and as
"Stakeman", Edward, Joel and Jack Thorpe has said, if Clint
said he will take care of the problem, then he will!!! Sometime
these types of problems take some time to work out Dargo.
If you have any doubts about Clint's dedication, or his word
to help you out, just contact Keith Livingstone (Rammin On)
at "Forest City Diesel", a "banner" advertiser on this site!
Keith owns a 95' Dodge CTD 4X4 also with an ATS TripleLok
Stage IV transmission. Almost two years ago at the TDR
Diesel Rally in Columbus, Ind. Keith had problems with his
ATS tranny which was later traced to a cracked case by Clint
and his technicians. We were able to get his truck to Scheid
Diesel's shop in Terre Haute, Indiana where Clint and another
ATS technician personally worked on Keith's truck for four (4)
hours to repair it for him!! How do I know that??? Because
I was there watching it happen!! To see the owner of a
business personally tearing down and then rebuilding a
transmission to get one of his customers "back on the road"
spoke volumes to me about the type of person Clint Cannon
is and how he likes to run his business!!
Dargo, I see where you live in Indiana. My units were both installed by Scheid Diesel in Effingham, Illinois, not far from where you live. I know this situation has gone too far now, but I would like to recommend Scheid Diesel to you for future reference. They are an authorized ATS dealer and have been for about two years now. Brian Koester is their main transmission technician and that
is his main responsibility. He is very good at his job and has been doing transmissions for many years!!
Anyway, take care and good luck!!
---------
John_P
02-26-2004, 09:36 AM
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John_P, thanks for your reassuring post. As I stated earlier, I appreciate comments from actual ATS customers like you who have had fantastic service on a great product. Unfortunately my experience hasn't started out that way. As a business owner myself, I do understand that at times mistakes happen no matter how much I try to prevent them. I'm just hoping that I will soon be able to report that I received great service you described. Sounds like from your knowledge of ATS that satisfaction and a great product are the norm for ATS. You can't imagine how much I want to be able to say the same. Hopefully today!