AirDog vs. FASS
12-28-2007, 02:34 PM
#76
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I still stand by what I said that the Walbro was and is a good pump. 
I was very happy with it! I just reached a point in time where I wanted to try something new and at the point I have reached, I needed to have 2 walbros plumbed in line to keep the engine fed. I had 2 suction lines coming out of my tank, two pumps, two relays, two feed lines under the truck, plumbed into a 2 micron filter and from there it went to a return regulator with a dedicated return line. Needless to say, the plumbing under the truck was all over the place. LOL With the Air Dog, I have it all contained. Charlie--, could you please do me a favor and check the company ledger to verify I bought my pump?
12-28-2007, 05:09 PM
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This may have been asked, or even shown before, but do either of the competing companies have any charts that show the flow vs. pressure?
Personally, I'd like to know what each one flows. Everyone say they like their pressure at "x" psi, but I wanna see what the pumps are actually flowing at said pressures.
Personally, I'd like to know what each one flows. Everyone say they like their pressure at "x" psi, but I wanna see what the pumps are actually flowing at said pressures.
From left to right: 150 GPH, 95 GPH, 120 GPH (90 @ 45 PSI), 200 GPH (180 @ 45), New 240 GPH pump
12-28-2007, 10:18 PM
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Sure can, all AirDogs shipped to Mr. Mills and Mid Atlantic have been paid for as they were shipped. All statements made by Mr. Mills are solely his thoughts and have not in any way been solicited or paid announcements. His comments are evidently the results of using an original and quality product that is unique in its field of technology!
Charlie Ekstam
Charlie Ekstam
hmm, I know you have been waiting for this. I still stand by what I said that the Walbro was and is a good pump. I was very happy with it! I just reached a point in time where I wanted to try something new and at the point I have reached.
Charlie--, could you please do me a favor and check the company ledger to verify I bought my pump?
I still stand by what I said that the Walbro was and is a good pump. I was very happy with it! I just reached a point in time where I wanted to try something new and at the point I have reached. Charlie--, could you please do me a favor and check the company ledger to verify I bought my pump?
12-28-2007, 10:41 PM
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I would be curious to know if the AirDog filters are available third party. I dont need the capacity of the FASS150 and have no intentions of purchasing anything that has a filter that can only be purchased from the manufacturer.
12-28-2007, 11:07 PM
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AirDog filters
The AirDog filters are made by Fleetguard and contain StrataPore media. Fleetguard always makes a crossover filter. I do not have the crossover numbers here at home but we do not try to keep them a secret. I will get these numbers and post them for future reference. Because of the long life of these filters on the AirDog, I have had the same filter on my '99 24 valve for over 4 1/2 years without a change, simply buy one extra at the time of purchase and you are covered for quite some time.
You can purchase these filters from any of the AirDog dealers.
I hope this will help,
Charlie
You can purchase these filters from any of the AirDog dealers.
I hope this will help,
Charlie
Last edited by Fuel Preporator; 12-28-2007 at 11:08 PM. Reason: added info
12-29-2007, 12:12 AM
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Fass vs FuelPreporator? Brad Ekstam vs Charlie Ekstam? Curioser and curioser..........prolly not enuff real difference to getcher knickers in a bind, eh?
FYI - vacuum relieves fuel surface tension, allowing those aerated bubbles to break thru and escape - both systems pull a vacuum to draw the fuel from the tank - that's how external lift pumps work: no vacuum = no flow - you could use a small air compressor to pressurize the tank and force fuel out and up to the CP3 - even then you'll still be using "vacuum" in yer external fuel supply system, on the air compressor intake, but how will the bubbles escape from the increased surface tension?
Word up, dudes...............
BTW - ennybody need a explaination of vacuum vs atmospheric pressure, ala Science 101?
FYI - vacuum relieves fuel surface tension, allowing those aerated bubbles to break thru and escape - both systems pull a vacuum to draw the fuel from the tank - that's how external lift pumps work: no vacuum = no flow - you could use a small air compressor to pressurize the tank and force fuel out and up to the CP3 - even then you'll still be using "vacuum" in yer external fuel supply system, on the air compressor intake, but how will the bubbles escape from the increased surface tension?
Word up, dudes...............
BTW - ennybody need a explaination of vacuum vs atmospheric pressure, ala Science 101?
12-29-2007, 01:29 AM
#82
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The pump creates a vacuum. Thats a pressure differential to the negative of ambient. OK lets try it a little easier. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.73 psi. Thats the pressure of the atmosphere, the weight of a 1 inch column of air from the top, 120,000 feet. This weight will push a column of mercury, Hg, up a vacuum tube (totally empty tube - no air inside) 29somethin inches. For easier understanding, 2 inches mercury (vacuum) is equal to roughly 1 pound positive or 1 psi.
With all of that, the pump creates a void which we call a vacuum and atmospheric pressure trys to push what ever is between it and the void into the void. Now we have flow. The rate of the flow depends on a number of things. The inside diameter of the passageway, the length of the passageway, how high the pump is above the fuel level. If the pump is above the fuel level, substract the weight of the fuel from the vacuum. If the pump is below the fuel level add the weight of the fuel to the vacuum. Here's your numbers for that. Diesel fuel weighs 6.9 to 7.2 pounds per gallon (water is 8lbs.) depending on temperature, etc. There are 231 cubic inches to a gallon. Do the math, a total vacuum can only push a liquid up a tube or pipe 462 inches at sea level. That's why water well pumps in wells over 38.5 ft. deep must be in the water. OK, now lets make it harder. Lets restrict the flow wit a filter that is going to get dirty and block the flow and lets do this in a high performance truck so inertia can add to the confusion. No lets get into my arena. Let's slosh the fuel, entraining air. Let's return fuel to the tank agitating it more, entraining more air. All of this air plus cavitation from all this restriction to the lift pump creating vapor is compressible delaying the pressure build up in the injectors, retards timing. How the heck do we even get the engines to run??
Sounds bad, but there is hope. Taa Daa, here comes the light!! OK, no commercial messages, Lary would bust me!!
Anyway, in all of this I hope you got a little of how fuel gets to the engine and all of the things that are working against it. Oh, I forgot! Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.73 psi, At Denver, 5280 ft. you loose 15% pressure and at 10,000 ft. in the mountains you loose 30% atmospheric pressure. Flow goes down and cavitation increases.
jd, hows that work for ya?
Charlie (of the Ekstams)
PS: As soon as I get the time, you will see the real comparison of the two on our website. Truth Rules!!
With all of that, the pump creates a void which we call a vacuum and atmospheric pressure trys to push what ever is between it and the void into the void. Now we have flow. The rate of the flow depends on a number of things. The inside diameter of the passageway, the length of the passageway, how high the pump is above the fuel level. If the pump is above the fuel level, substract the weight of the fuel from the vacuum. If the pump is below the fuel level add the weight of the fuel to the vacuum. Here's your numbers for that. Diesel fuel weighs 6.9 to 7.2 pounds per gallon (water is 8lbs.) depending on temperature, etc. There are 231 cubic inches to a gallon. Do the math, a total vacuum can only push a liquid up a tube or pipe 462 inches at sea level. That's why water well pumps in wells over 38.5 ft. deep must be in the water. OK, now lets make it harder. Lets restrict the flow wit a filter that is going to get dirty and block the flow and lets do this in a high performance truck so inertia can add to the confusion. No lets get into my arena. Let's slosh the fuel, entraining air. Let's return fuel to the tank agitating it more, entraining more air. All of this air plus cavitation from all this restriction to the lift pump creating vapor is compressible delaying the pressure build up in the injectors, retards timing. How the heck do we even get the engines to run??
Sounds bad, but there is hope. Taa Daa, here comes the light!! OK, no commercial messages, Lary would bust me!!
Anyway, in all of this I hope you got a little of how fuel gets to the engine and all of the things that are working against it. Oh, I forgot! Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.73 psi, At Denver, 5280 ft. you loose 15% pressure and at 10,000 ft. in the mountains you loose 30% atmospheric pressure. Flow goes down and cavitation increases.
jd, hows that work for ya?
Charlie (of the Ekstams)
PS: As soon as I get the time, you will see the real comparison of the two on our website. Truth Rules!!
12-29-2007, 08:02 AM
#83
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The pump creates a vacuum. Thats a pressure differential to the negative of ambient. OK lets try it a little easier. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.73 psi. Thats the pressure of the atmosphere, the weight of a 1 inch column of air from the top, 120,000 feet. This weight will push a column of mercury, Hg, up a vacuum tube (totally empty tube - no air inside) 29somethin inches. For easier understanding, 2 inches mercury (vacuum) is equal to roughly 1 pound positive or 1 psi.
With all of that, the pump creates a void which we call a vacuum and atmospheric pressure trys to push what ever is between it and the void into the void. Now we have flow. The rate of the flow depends on a number of things. The inside diameter of the passageway, the length of the passageway, how high the pump is above the fuel level. If the pump is above the fuel level, substract the weight of the fuel from the vacuum. If the pump is below the fuel level add the weight of the fuel to the vacuum. Here's your numbers for that. Diesel fuel weighs 6.9 to 7.2 pounds per gallon (water is 8lbs.) depending on temperature, etc. There are 231 cubic inches to a gallon. Do the math, a total vacuum can only push a liquid up a tube or pipe 462 inches at sea level. That's why water well pumps in wells over 38.5 ft. deep must be in the water. OK, now lets make it harder. Lets restrict the flow wit a filter that is going to get dirty and block the flow and lets do this in a high performance truck so inertia can add to the confusion. No lets get into my arena. Let's slosh the fuel, entraining air. Let's return fuel to the tank agitating it more, entraining more air. All of this air plus cavitation from all this restriction to the lift pump creating vapor is compressible delaying the pressure build up in the injectors, retards timing. How the heck do we even get the engines to run??
Sounds bad, but there is hope. Taa Daa, here comes the light!! OK, no commercial messages, Lary would bust me!!
Anyway, in all of this I hope you got a little of how fuel gets to the engine and all of the things that are working against it. Oh, I forgot! Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.73 psi, At Denver, 5280 ft. you loose 15% pressure and at 10,000 ft. in the mountains you loose 30% atmospheric pressure. Flow goes down and cavitation increases.
jd, hows that work for ya?
Charlie (of the Ekstams)
PS: As soon as I get the time, you will see the real comparison of the two on our website. Truth Rules!!
With all of that, the pump creates a void which we call a vacuum and atmospheric pressure trys to push what ever is between it and the void into the void. Now we have flow. The rate of the flow depends on a number of things. The inside diameter of the passageway, the length of the passageway, how high the pump is above the fuel level. If the pump is above the fuel level, substract the weight of the fuel from the vacuum. If the pump is below the fuel level add the weight of the fuel to the vacuum. Here's your numbers for that. Diesel fuel weighs 6.9 to 7.2 pounds per gallon (water is 8lbs.) depending on temperature, etc. There are 231 cubic inches to a gallon. Do the math, a total vacuum can only push a liquid up a tube or pipe 462 inches at sea level. That's why water well pumps in wells over 38.5 ft. deep must be in the water. OK, now lets make it harder. Lets restrict the flow wit a filter that is going to get dirty and block the flow and lets do this in a high performance truck so inertia can add to the confusion. No lets get into my arena. Let's slosh the fuel, entraining air. Let's return fuel to the tank agitating it more, entraining more air. All of this air plus cavitation from all this restriction to the lift pump creating vapor is compressible delaying the pressure build up in the injectors, retards timing. How the heck do we even get the engines to run??
Sounds bad, but there is hope. Taa Daa, here comes the light!! OK, no commercial messages, Lary would bust me!!
Anyway, in all of this I hope you got a little of how fuel gets to the engine and all of the things that are working against it. Oh, I forgot! Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.73 psi, At Denver, 5280 ft. you loose 15% pressure and at 10,000 ft. in the mountains you loose 30% atmospheric pressure. Flow goes down and cavitation increases.
jd, hows that work for ya?
Charlie (of the Ekstams)
PS: As soon as I get the time, you will see the real comparison of the two on our website. Truth Rules!!
12-29-2007, 10:22 AM
#84
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As I suspected ...........folks, that's the science behind much of what we work and play with, including that big noisy, stinky air pump that is the end-user of the (foamy) fuel we're trying to remove from the tank
Point being: if you're considering an auxilliary or replacement fuel system, go with a brand that has been soundly engineered - you cannot just throw an extra pump at a Diesel problem like you can with gasoline: the foam\aeration factor is a real kicker in our system(s) - so, if you're adding a system, get a good one - if you're attempting to copy a system, make sure you copy a good one, or you'll create as many problems as you're trying to solve.
Thanks for taking the time, and the comprehensive explanation, Charlie.
...........folks, that's the science behind much of what we work and play with, including that big noisy, stinky air pump that is the end-user of the (foamy) fuel we're trying to remove from the tankPoint being: if you're considering an auxilliary or replacement fuel system, go with a brand that has been soundly engineered - you cannot just throw an extra pump at a Diesel problem like you can with gasoline: the foam\aeration factor is a real kicker in our system(s) - so, if you're adding a system, get a good one - if you're attempting to copy a system, make sure you copy a good one, or you'll create as many problems as you're trying to solve.
Thanks for taking the time, and the comprehensive explanation, Charlie.
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