qzilla

First, please do not dilute this thread. I don't want ANY 2nd hand info here. If you don't have one and don't have this issue then don't post in here.


As you know I have been working on this a lot. What gets me is that our trucks here are glassy smooth. We get a lot of customer feedback that they are glassy smooth and I read on here that people think that they are super smooth. Then we have the guys that say they jump, surge and buck so bad you cannot drive it. As you can see it is really frustrating to try and find the differences.

I am not convinced it has NOTHING to do with tuning. In testing a long time ago we noted that some of these pumps put off slightly different pulses. At the time it was somewhat insignificant but, we did note it. What I want to try and do is see if this has anything to do with this problem.

What I personally think is happening is that we are fueling but, missing injections on some pumps which would cause it to run pretty rough.


The first step is defining what is going on. Here is our definitions.

Surge:
While trying to lightly accelerate or maintain a constant speed the engine will slowly speed up and slow down. It should not make any weird noises but, it should feel like you are verly lightly adding throttle and then coasting, then adding throttle again. Surging should be almost rythmic.

Bucking:

This would feel like bad stumbling, a miss or like a hard acceleration to a complete lack of acceleration and then a hard acceleration again. This should happy really fast almost feeling like you hit a set of rumble strips on the road constantly. When this happens you should be able to see black smoke from the exhaust but, it should not be solid black. It would almost look like a machine gun with black smoke and then nothing and then more black smoke.



What I want to know is what exactly you guys are experiencing. If it is something different that what I listed please elaborate. Please do not say mine is doing something different with no explanation.


Once I get a feel for what you guys are seeing we are going to try and duplicate it in testing (purposely) and see if I can fix it. We think we know the issue and it looks like we might have you guys running smoothly soon.

So post up what you are seeing.

xtoyz17

Mine would fall under the definition of "bucking", however as best I can tell mine does not do the black machine gun puffing.

On second thought, I'll go take a drive right now to find out. I'm bringing the laptop with a few tunes so I'll see what does worse, better, indifferent..

EDIT: Truck also demonstrates surging as well. I initially attributed it to the infamous dodge cruise controls that fuel too hard, but when the chip is off or on PL1, the surging is there.

Just to be clear at 60MPH it: Accelerates for 2-3 seconds, seems as though it lets off, and repeats. One time the truck "surged" enough to add 2mph to the speed on the pulse display which is otherwise rock solid usually.

I did NOT get the machine gun smoke that I could see, but I should also mention that in a 6 mile trip I just made I could only get it to "buck" hard once and it was before I remembered to point my mirror down.

This was on ADRCOMP, on PL05.

RacerRon

I would fit the bucking definition also. The 1000B tune seems to have helped when the truck is unloaded. I also have never really noticed the black puffing either. The truck is a dually so, seeing the tailpipe outlet is a bit difficult.

I have never had the bucking on PL1....PL2 and higher it is there (more so with other tunes). Because of this, I have never tried the 1000C tune.

The bucking was most noticeable when running steady speed and apply a very light load like a small hill. Engine RPM 1500 to 2200. Truck speed anywhere from about 35 MPH to 75 MPH.

When towing, it is a different story. Trailer is about 7000 pounds. Anything PL2 or higher and the bucking is there. It is especially bad when pulling a hill at 70 MPH even with the 1000B tune(2000 RPM or so).

I have also noticed this tune seems to be very smokey at low RPM/boost. It appears that the MAP sensor has very little effect on fueling.

I have watched all sensors on the pulse and cant see any that are jumping to cause the bucking.

JIT

My truck also "bucks" on all levels except 0. Its barely noticeable on level 1 but gets progressively worse as I go up from there. To the point where I have to either be WOT or off the throttle to drive it.

The aggressive tunes are worse then than mild tunes. If I tow anything I end up turning the ADR off and running the Smarty. I have not ran a tune yet that didnt have some Surging!

Josh

jfoster@yaleflorida.com

braxton357

Bucking here, and no black smoke at all...just a loss of power when it happens. Havent tried the newest tunes yet though.

:edit: It didn't always do it though. Seems like maybe changing tunes too much might have caused it? Surges now on all of them where it wouldn't before.

scottsjeeprolet

I have the bucking.
It usually happens at light throttle, 40ish, light load. But it will also do it at highway speeds too.
I thought at first that it was my TC, but i can throttle out of the bucking.
Haven't noticed the smoke. As the levels increase the bucking gets worse.
I am running the 1000b tune, haven't tried the C tune yet either.
Could it be the signs of an IP going bad? Not everyone is having these issues. Or an overly sensitive APPS?

qzilla

Looks like 4 out of 5 have 1 thing in common. Auto trannies. Not that there is anything wrong with the transmissions themselves but, possibly we are doing something that does not mesh well with an auto?

All of that sounds like surging to me of some sort. Bucking will not be cleared up by adding throttle, at least not the sort of bucking I am thinking.

scottsjeeprolet

Ok so i guess i have a bad surge. It's enough to bounce the truck.
I am also running a lock up controller, it locks 3rd @ 30 and OD @ 45.
It's also an Auto Sport Dually too.

xtoyz17

Perhaps it's a severe version of surging, but like Scott I get some bucking that shakes the truck. Enough of it at least to wake my G/F up in the passenger seat.

Mine also clears up if I push the pedal harder or just completely let off.

EDIT: Also, if I have a camper or trailer behind me the VERY jerky "surging" that I suspect this is gets even worse.

sal3c

i get some bucking out of mine but i have only noticed it on the 3000, dyno, and comp tunes. i can run 2000 pl07 all day and hardly notice it

paulb

Mine would fit into the surging catagory. Light throttle, starts about 40 and stops about 65. Increasing the throttle stops it. Cruise surging would be a good discription. It's bad enough that it makes it unusable for everyday driving.

Paul

12valve

Comp1 tune: My truck also "bucks" on all levels except 0 and 1. It gets progressively worse as I go up from there. To the point where I have to either be WOT or off the throttle to drive it.

The aggressive tunes are worse then than mild tunes.
I just put it on level 0 or 1 daily driving

Number47

i have bucking. usually happens any power level at or around the rpm the adrenaline fuels heavy 1200ish. it feels like some one is turning my fuel on and off rapidly. it was terrible with the original tune(one from factory) but with the newer tunes its next to nothing. for what this chip is capable of I'm not gonna complain.

bnold

I guess mine would best fall under a surge... Basically around 15-20% TPS and 10psi of boost...

IE cruising on the highway at 70mph, hit slight incline and boost creeps to 10.5psi or so... Bam slight throw back into seat feeling and 15-17psi of boost... I cannot hold anywhere between 11 and 15 or 16 psi of boost, as teh truck will automatically fuel hard than I want.

This has been the most frusterating for me as I cant run with the adrenaline on on the highway (or really in town, any time the truck would see just over 10psi boost when not really accelerating hard) It simply feels like the adrenaline is hitting too hard when I dont need it to... Like a jump in the fueling curve...

Let see how else can I describe....
Ah try this... I would expect a nice porabola type curve on a graph through the RPM range... However with the adrenaline on (this is PL03 and up... sometimes PL02, but not as often) I would expect to see a nice porabola to 10 psi and then a straight vertical jump to 17psi and then a nice porabola again from there...

Confused yet??
Call me anytime if so... Always offered to meet you half way from Ft. Worth and Denton to show you exactly... easily repreduceable on my truck

jrraw23

qzilla -

I just had my Adr w/ monitor installed today, bought it through Carolina Hitch in Mooresville, NC - check with your sales folks they just signed up as a vendor with you.

Anyway I think either they did something wrong with the install or i need to do something - problem is I haven't touched a diesel b4 so i need to do some reading to figure out the situation with the adr programmer. I do have the bucking, not sure about the surging because I've only spent about 30 min driving it today since it was installed.

Anyway I can't even tell the programmer is doing anything at power level 1 and 2, can somewhat tell it is adding power at 5 and at level 10 i cant even do a burnout (dumped the clutch on level 10 at 2500 rpm barely chirped ) but i do feel decent power gain on level 10 as long as i stay in the throttle no bucking, there was bucking at level 5 and 10 when i tried both also tried 8 it bucked there as well, mines a 5 speed 3500 that is bone stock other than an intake, 4" exhaust, and the FASS.

Hope this helps, I'm gonna spend some time reading the other threads to figure out if I need to do something else, i know someone mentioned on another board something about the fuel pressure, and apparently I can download stuff from your site . . . like I said, newb at diesel stuff, I need to go read some to figure out what to do




I will say it would have been nice to have some of the info that i'm having to drudge throu reading here about all the different programs and trying to get the right one in the instructions that came with the kit, If I didn't know about this forum I would have been a very unhappy customer - but since I do I am willing to spend some time to get it setup right, not trying to talk trash, just constructive criticism for your future business dealings, I will say from reading other threads and this one you are definitely trying to get it fixed thou and thats cool in my book