signature600

OK, So Don M tells me that Mach 2 EDM's are

Power and Heat = 370's
Smoke < 370's

The he say's that I should go with Mach 1.5's.

Now, I KNOW, that I should shut up and listen to him, as he seems to be the injector "god," but I just would like to know what kind of HP or numbers these would produce.

I will probably just go with the 1.5's, but I only want to do this once, and don't want to have to get the 2's later.

Thanks,
Chris

Don M

If your turbo is a stocker...the 370 size injector is pretty large, but guys do get away with them. Its frustrating to tow a load and constantly have to let out of the pedal to cool it back down though.

Using a bunch of timing, conservative TQ plate settings, and the AFC housing slid all the way back you MIGHT be ok.

I am always conservative. It keeps guys driving more than repairing. That does not mean you could not run an even larger injector than a 370 and get away with it.

I also understand the frustrations of having to buy several sets of injectors to get what you want. Since you have the 95 size/class pump you might be ok with a light to medium size load.

Another less expensive option for the 95 engine is set of 300 Marines from Bosch. They are inexpensive and make decent power for the cash outlay.

Your options are:

370's:

Pros = inexpensive, great power.

Cons = can smoke heavy at WOT and low boost, some trucks get a stumble at 1300-1700 rpm, some trucks pop at high rpm, higher EGT than most anything else, smelliest of them all at idle and low speeds, lower fuel economy.

300's:

Pros = inexpensive, good power, you can tow with them

Cons = nothing real bad to mention

EDM's:

Pros = Lower smoke levels, never a high rpm pop reported, no stumbles, least smelly at low rpm and idle, increased low rpm pulling power/TQ.

Cons = expensive compared to a factory Bosch injector. Slight loss of high RPM power with some styles when compared to 370's.

The slight loss of high rpm power is very slight. Since no engines spend their time at higher rpm all the time and generally run at less than 3000 rpm, I felt the loss was more than acceptable for the gains down low ( where the engines spend 99% of their time )

Hope this helps,

Don~

Dargo

I have the Bosch 370's with a #10 plate in the stock position and the stock turbo. My pump has been recalibrated and turned up some, but I'm amazed at how accurate Don M is at describing the performance of my 370's. My truck is rather smelly at idle but has great power. I do not have any stumble and I never push my truck to any "high" RPM's at all, so I've never heard of a "pop". I do get some smoke (had none w/ stock injectors) but not too bad once I have boost. My only EGT issues are if I am pulling a load and lug the engine for power. If I push the truck with a load behind it at lower RPM's I do have to watch the EGT temp. As long as I'm over about 2000 RPM I've never had a temp issue at all even with about 14K behind me going up a hill. My next consideration is a different turbo. I've never tried moving my plate foreword any, so I don't know what that would do. Anyone know?

John_P

signature600:

"DonM" has given you some very good advice! He has
done alot of "testing" with all of these injectors and IMO
that is the only way to really tell what happens with our
trucks!

Like "Dargo" I also have the 370 Diamond B Injectors in
my 96' 12 valve Dodge CTD. Mine have performed VERY
well and they have been in the truck for three (3) years
now! I push my truck pretty hard and have the 4K governor
spring kit in it and I will use all of that 4K if I have to!
(At the drag strip, racing PSD's or Duramaxes on the street)
The 370's in my truck pull smoothly through all RPM ranges,
and I have never had any "hesitation" or "popping" as some
of the other members have. However, as Don and Dargo
said, the black smoke (especially off the line) is pretty bad!!
My fuel pump P7100 is set pretty high too, so this just
aggravates the situation!! When drag racing, I will leave
a HUGE black smoke cloud at the line and my smoke NEVER
clears up as I drive down the drag strip!! Also, like Dargo,
I can get the EGT's up there, but I do not think that the
EGT's rise as fast on my 96' as they do on my 2002 24 valve.
I am running a Piers HX-40/16 on the 1996 and I did notice
a big difference when I changed to that turbo from the
stock HX-35/12.

Hope this has helped you some.

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John_P

Don M

The 215 HP pumps like the 370's. The pop is almost always associated with the 160 and 175 pumps. I had severals sets of 370's that had the weird hesitation/stumble in my 215 pump though. I guess some get it and some dont.

My new pump does not hesitate or stumble at all with any injector. Its based on the 215.

370's are just plain hard to beat on value. I dont sell or have much interest in the EDM's for a 12 valve until the big power guys come calling. High altitude guys too. Unfortunantly the cost to build them is just expensive and I cant around it YET!

Don~

PourinDiesel

What is a good general horsepower rating for the 370 over stock in a 215 truck?
Also what is a rule of thumb rating for the 300 injector in a truck with the 215 pump?

--Justin

signature600

So,

Do you think I should split the difference, and try like a Mach 1.7 (which, I think I heard somewhere that could be done)

I could just slide the plate to get the power I want, BUT, I think BETTER injectors (EDM's) will do better for me and my engine and pump.

OH Yeah, I'm planning on a turbo upgrade, either Dodgezilla 35/40 Hybrid, or maybe a Full-on HX-40, Don't know yet, what are your guys thought while I have your attention?

Thanks Again,
Chris

Don M

370's usually make about 100 HP in the 215 pump with a good tune up.

300's. I dont know. Certainly less.

Dodgezilla, HX40 or B-1 are all fine

Got Smoke?

I beg to differ on the "con's" of 300's. I ran a set of Bosch 300's in my truck for a year. With my #10 plate "CENTERED" I could peg my 1600* gauge at will. I sold my 300's when PDR put their 370's on sale and picked up a set of those.

My initial reaction upon running the PDR370's with my #10..... The PDR370's run cooler while driving down the road, they easily seem to find 3K RPMs in 2nd and 3rd, they also don't get as hot as quick as my 300's did. If fact, after installing my #10 plate and then making an hour drive over to a friends about 1.5 hrs away I slid my #10 full forward to see what it would do for the ride back.

Findings: I have to redline 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears from a stop or really BOG the motor to get past 1200* while going down the road. Driving with just moderate acceleration I cannot break 1200* period! I have my stock HX35x12cmWG'd, with a Scotty II with the cowl hole.

My opinion after writing this book as a testimony. DON'T BUY 300's! they are a little bit of power, and a LOT of EGT.

Don M

On the 300's VS 370's:

I have a fella that lives at 5000FT that was using the 300's to tow a pretty heavy fiver. He could never keep his foot in it to climb hills but he did manage to tow. Using 370's at altitude and towing was impossible to keep it cool and the pedal had to be lifted enough to result in mountains pass speeds to drop to 35MPH from a 55MPH speed with a stock injector. Hot rodding is of course a different story.

I dont have any driveability testing myself on the 300's. I knew the injector style, the flow rate as compared to the 370's and other sizes.

The bad part is having the power to get up the hills and finding out the EGT's force you to lift off the pedal to keep things cool/safe.

Its not only heat that causes wear in the engine. The injectable quantity of fuel from the 370 is radically high when you compare it to others across the board.

Food for thought: The marine engines having an unlimited supply of sea water to cool the engine is a big help for them. Not to mention the pumps are weaker compared to the 215's with a plate.

All in all it adds to more than just hot-rodding around. Many guys want to tow a trailer and keep their foot in it when doing so to keep the Dmax and PS guy from driving by them.



Don~

John_P

Good points on the 370's Don!

Another thing about the 370's is their very wide "spray
angle" inside the combustion chamber, specifically around
the top of the piston. When Scheid tore my engine down
in January for the rebuild, you could clearly see the five
distinctive "black marks" right around the edge of the
piston "hole" on each and every piston. Not that this
is necessarily bad, but,.....the "atomization" of the fuel
could be somewhat better. It is probably a factor in the
increased black smoke too!

But,....as everyone said, for the money the 370's are
definitely the "best bang for the buck!"

---------
John_P