24V motor out Rebuild.....what suggestions....HOT truck needed!
09-17-2004, 12:09 PM
#61
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......I'll Take 10 sets!!! You take a check? haha....man there is some good info on here...i cant say that i didnt learn anything! I have a pretty good idea of where i want to go with this project...and my own hopefully long away in the future! i will have a truck that will run......but my house payments are more improtant!
Me being on the side....i see that there are pluses and minuses to both. BUT i have to say...when money IS an object...the stockers seem to be best suited....and for the durability....they aint bad either....but both sides have been beaten pretty good......
Me being on the side....i see that there are pluses and minuses to both. BUT i have to say...when money IS an object...the stockers seem to be best suited....and for the durability....they aint bad either....but both sides have been beaten pretty good......
09-17-2004, 01:21 PM
#62
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Don M
Let me ask you a few questions.
How many of these motors do you build monthley?
Have you even used a Forged ARIAS PISTON for this motor?
The reason I ask is you say that you rarely see a oem cast piston fail. If this where a correct statement I would not sell the sixty or so sets monthly that I sell.
Now about the longgevity of the ARIAS PISTON for your motor I do not know exactly it totally depends on the indavidule owner.
Does the customer maintane his truck? does he chang the oil and so on. There are alot of factors involved we all know this.
We have many pistons running in these trucks and to date we have no complants or failures.
You seem to know alot about aluminum forgings and how they work. Did you use to work for a company who manufactured forged pistons? Or was it just from personal use.?
Let me ask you a few questions.
How many of these motors do you build monthley?
Have you even used a Forged ARIAS PISTON for this motor?
The reason I ask is you say that you rarely see a oem cast piston fail. If this where a correct statement I would not sell the sixty or so sets monthly that I sell.
Now about the longgevity of the ARIAS PISTON for your motor I do not know exactly it totally depends on the indavidule owner.
Does the customer maintane his truck? does he chang the oil and so on. There are alot of factors involved we all know this.
We have many pistons running in these trucks and to date we have no complants or failures.
You seem to know alot about aluminum forgings and how they work. Did you use to work for a company who manufactured forged pistons? Or was it just from personal use.?
09-17-2004, 02:03 PM
#63
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Lets assume the owners of these trucks take the outmost care of them. Top notch service.
Could you answer the questions I posed then? They are fair questions.
We have established the stock cast Cummins pistons will last longer than many guys even keep the trucks. 200,000 miles plus even under duress. Now I am trying to establish the viability of the long term use of the ARIAS piston.
We already know the forged piston will take more abuse than it's cast counterpart in the short term, but what about the guys listed in my previous post?
What about JohnP? Is his engine going to need a rebuild in 10, 20, 30 thousand miles? In my experience this has always been the case with forged pistons using the alloys similar or indentical to yours in lower pressure gas engines. The piston slap I had in 30,000 miles in a small block Ford was terrible using a 2618 low silicon alloy piston.
Don~
Could you answer the questions I posed then? They are fair questions.
We have established the stock cast Cummins pistons will last longer than many guys even keep the trucks. 200,000 miles plus even under duress. Now I am trying to establish the viability of the long term use of the ARIAS piston.
We already know the forged piston will take more abuse than it's cast counterpart in the short term, but what about the guys listed in my previous post?
What about JohnP? Is his engine going to need a rebuild in 10, 20, 30 thousand miles? In my experience this has always been the case with forged pistons using the alloys similar or indentical to yours in lower pressure gas engines. The piston slap I had in 30,000 miles in a small block Ford was terrible using a 2618 low silicon alloy piston.
Don~
09-17-2004, 02:34 PM
#64
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Don M
Only time will tell.
We have many customers with these parts and have well over 30.000 miles on them.
ARIAS does not put a part in a vehicle that has not been tested. As far as reaching the 200.000 mark it only takes time to tell.
These pistons that we manufacture for Scheid are way difrent in material and design. Scheid has taken the extra step in designing parts for there customers.
The only thing I can tell you is try a set and see for your self.
Only time will tell.
We have many customers with these parts and have well over 30.000 miles on them.
ARIAS does not put a part in a vehicle that has not been tested. As far as reaching the 200.000 mark it only takes time to tell.
These pistons that we manufacture for Scheid are way difrent in material and design. Scheid has taken the extra step in designing parts for there customers.
The only thing I can tell you is try a set and see for your self.
09-17-2004, 03:13 PM
#65
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Well, I know for certain that ARIAS puts a pile of work in their products and stands behind what they sell. I have used ARIAS pistons in some hard core applications with great results.
That being said....I just cant wrap my mind around a forged piston in a street engine. They would however last longer than a cast piston in an application that would overcome the pressure or temperature limits in short term high power blasts.
If you go all the way back to page one of this thread you will find I recommended the guy use the stock Cummins RV275 piston. It is MMC fiber re-inforced squeeze cast design. They are squeezed under 5000 pounds of pressure to avoid any air pockets or voids like a normal casting can develope and it does increase the density and improve the grain structure. With a mesh frame of fiber to further aid in stability.
Simply put it has all the benefits of a normal cast piston and nearly the strength of a forged piston. ( tight piston to wall clearances so you get no piston rock to wear the grooves and the rings, great thermal stability, increased strength from the fiber mesh re-inforceing, and coating on the sides to minimize skirt scuffing. These things are 600 bucks a set and can go for hundreds of thousands of miles.
John wanted to recommend a forged piston without any long term use data. I just had a differing opinion. I dont have a dog in this fight. I dont sell pistons to anyone. I dont work for a piston manufacturer. I have had some prototype forged pistons worked up, but they are nothing I want to sell to the public and one I would not put in a street engine that already has some serious high pressure pistons from the factory. If this same guy came to me to ask what I would do in a performance only engine for racing/pulling I would say use a forged piece in many cases and ARIAS would be at the top of the call lisst.
Don~
That being said....I just cant wrap my mind around a forged piston in a street engine. They would however last longer than a cast piston in an application that would overcome the pressure or temperature limits in short term high power blasts.
If you go all the way back to page one of this thread you will find I recommended the guy use the stock Cummins RV275 piston. It is MMC fiber re-inforced squeeze cast design. They are squeezed under 5000 pounds of pressure to avoid any air pockets or voids like a normal casting can develope and it does increase the density and improve the grain structure. With a mesh frame of fiber to further aid in stability.
Simply put it has all the benefits of a normal cast piston and nearly the strength of a forged piston. ( tight piston to wall clearances so you get no piston rock to wear the grooves and the rings, great thermal stability, increased strength from the fiber mesh re-inforceing, and coating on the sides to minimize skirt scuffing. These things are 600 bucks a set and can go for hundreds of thousands of miles.
John wanted to recommend a forged piston without any long term use data. I just had a differing opinion. I dont have a dog in this fight. I dont sell pistons to anyone. I dont work for a piston manufacturer. I have had some prototype forged pistons worked up, but they are nothing I want to sell to the public and one I would not put in a street engine that already has some serious high pressure pistons from the factory. If this same guy came to me to ask what I would do in a performance only engine for racing/pulling I would say use a forged piece in many cases and ARIAS would be at the top of the call lisst.
Don~
09-17-2004, 07:42 PM
#66
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Don,
Do you have the #'s for the weight of the 275RV pistons? Also wanted know when you would have the rods ready for the public and also give us some #'s on the weight diff compared to stock?
Keep up the good work,
Todd
Do you have the #'s for the weight of the 275RV pistons? Also wanted know when you would have the rods ready for the public and also give us some #'s on the weight diff compared to stock?
Keep up the good work,
Todd
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