Diesel-Dan

Going to help a bud rebuild a 99 24V. He wants to get this thing hummin to the tune of 600HP+. What suggestions for THE MOTOR REBUILD do any have that would make this bullet proof motor rocket proof? Off the top of my head this is what i think:

Head O-Ring (Peirs) (Would like to find someone around the dallas area)

port and pollish Cyl Head (Peirs)

Cam Shaft (Peirs)

Tefflon Coat piston skirts

Ceramic Coat Piston Tops

Head Studs

Bore Block (?)

Over sized pistons (?)

Valve Springs

Suggestion on where to find rebuild parts and such?
Pistons rings? Good Better Best?

I imagian that the crank and rods are good still. Motor is just blowing lots of blue smoke and seems to have a loss a cyl compression in 2 cyls when cranking... long, long short, long, short, long if you can catch my drift. The truck is a POS....but thoes issues are being addressed.....well heck...$2000 for a 1999.....tell ya anything? haha....good drag truck start!

We are looking at running at least 180 HP injectors, Drag Comp, nitrous, Water Meth, AFE stage II, 4-5" exhaust and a large turbo. AND posable Race VP44........Cant forget about a Southbent clutch (Yeah its a 5 speed........sigh...no 11.41 second times here!)

Any suggestions on the turbo? Dont think we want to twin it just yet.....but may be in the future....

Thanks for any help in advance!

Dan

Don M

Dan,

I am currently building a nice shortblock here. Over the past year we have identified the guys who can do the machine work the proper way with Diesels.

I suggest RV275 Pistons from Cummins. They are already coated on the skirts. They are squeeze cast and use a fibre reinforced material for added stability.

I can o-ring the head or the block, but the chances of ithe head being cracked is high. It can be less money to buy a new casting in some cases.

I can supply you the rod and main bearings. We had some custom high performance bearings made last year.

I can get the machine work complete as well. Boring , honing, etc.

Head studs...no problem.

I had custom rings made for mine. Im certain we can duplicate that as well.

Injectors...I might be able to scare something up

You dont need main studs unless you want to exceed 800 HP. I have a sweet stud girdle here we can duplicate as well.


IMO, skip the water/meth

Don~

Diesel-Dan

Don...i was hopeing you would chime in with a responce! Ill talk to this guy and see exactally what he wants done. I have been wanting to call you anyway for our shop stuff (Injectors and such)...this will be a good excuse to talk! PM me and ill give you my numbers here. Just like to keep it local...especally when it comes to cyl heads and such. AND also being the first full motor i am helping design...i want all the info i can ingest! Thanks!

Dan

HOHN

I'd put in a plug for coatings, here. Coatings from www.Swaintech.com will benefit the engine- better heat management, durability, etc...

GoldCoat is great in piston crowns, valve faces, and exhaust ports. PolyMoly is a piston skirt coating similar to what the RV275 pistons come with.

The Swain Tech White Lightning exhaust coating is the coating of choice by NASCAR teams. It's superior for keeping heat in the exhaust (and thus helping spoolup and flow). It's NOT a cosmetic coating.


Once you get the engine completely built and ready to install, find a cryo shop with a large enough chamber and have that sucker put in a deep-freeze-- Preferably a process like Cryo One uses where it is cooled slowly (one degree per minute) held near -450 for a day, then slowly returned to room temp (again, one degree per minute).

I've seen 350 Chevies pick up 20hp after being cryoed. We've debated back and forth as to how this could be, and no one knows for sure. (I favor the harmonics angle).

Justin

Ryan

You may want to check out this thread.



http://kydtr.com/iboard/index.php?sh...=0&#entry22908

JR can do a lot more than injectors as well.

MCummings

I'm in Tx too.

I can help with the valvetrain, electronic, and turbo upgrades.

*I* wouldn't cryo the motor, as it get's too "hard" and can become brittle.

I wouldn't go crazy on "boring" the motor, neither would I go crazy with the compression. *I* wouldn't lower it more than 1 point over stock.

I'm "building" (I didn't do the labour), a 600+ 12V motor right now. The rotating assemblies of the 12v and 24v motor's are very similar.

I kept my C/R stock, and the cylinder sizes stock. I did upgrade to very large valves in both intake and exhaust.

The bottom end is balanced, and has a girdle. Your 24V should'nt need a girdle unless you plan on running 4,000RPM.

I built my 12V to live at 5,000RPM, but I am going to be keeping the RPM down to 4,200 or less (unless I Miss a shift )

I would do cam, injectors, and head porting from Don, then valve and turbo work from J.R. I would do the "electronic", and fuel system work from, uhm, Me and of course tranny work from Standard Transmission (or Blumenthals) and South Bend Clutch. I can give you some good leads for ladder bars, and stacks if you want.

Merrick

HOHN

Merrick-- the Cryo can't harden the metal, iirc. You have to heat it up to change the hardness characteristics, from what I understand.

What the cryo does is relieve the residual stresses from the casting/forging/machining process.

Read more here: www.onecryo.com

jlh

MCummings

http://www.relentlessdiesel.com/foru...topic.php?t=20

A quote from that link...




Merrick

CTD NUT

MC:

I can't argue with your cryo results but I can tell you that it is not a hardening process. The goal is to make the molecular structure within the metal have some type of uniform alignment and not be random. It is supposed to make the strength of the metal more consistent and eliminate weak spots.

That said, I too have experimented with cryo and had some less than fantastic results also. We were freezing parts for our trail rigs to try and make driveline parts hold up better to the very low gearing we are using - ring & pinions and carriers and bearings and yokes and u-joints and............the list goes on and on. We felt we had some premature failures as result of the cryo. It appeared overall, that the cryoed parts were failing sooner and seemed weaker in the long run instead of stronger. When we talked to the shop that did the cryo work for us they gave us the shpeal about how the cryo made everything stronger and it was impossible to make it weaker - to sum it up - it's all in your heads you dummies, the parts are stronger you are just abusing them too much . Well, that was that we never cryoed another part again and everyone agreed that their parts were lasting longer.

I guess if it sounds too good to be true.......it probably is
I can't explain it and no else could either, but I know I will never cryo another thing again. After learning a little more about the science behind it, it seems to be a little more like a hit and miss technology than a sure thing.

MCummings

Thanks guys. I guess "hard" wasn't really the term I was looking for.

It seems the cryo'd input/output tranny shafts are holding up just fine.

These motors are really tough, even stock. (How many times do you see 500HP on 100,000 mile motors?)

Some items are definate "tuneable", and upgradeable parts. Other stuff is just best let alone.

Head work, Cam, and pushrods are all upgradeable, and tuneable.
While Crankshaft, Connecting Rods, and bore size are better left alone.

Merrick

rharveysr

Would it not be a good idea to check to see if this is a "53" block???? If it is..should it be replaced???

Rick

Diesel-Dan

Thanks guys for all the info! From the posts i think i got some good leads and info. I will be calling around and talking to as much people as posable. I got the truck here at the shop now. We are going to yank the motor and tranny either today or Monday...ish...if we are even open! I got the shop manuels and i will use them as a Bible for this rebuild. Thanks.....Ill keep posting......

O yeah....Turbo Suggetions with this motor? (Non Twin...)

Whats the word on Bully Dogs New Ball Bearing turbo for the Dodge? (Big Woof) They say its good for 70PSI...seems high to me......but posable?

Vaughn MacKenzie

Don (mudinford) I am curious to know what you guys find out when you tear down the motor. I'm always interested in "failure analysis"

Vaughn

Crimedog

Jeez! you guys love spending other people's money

HOHN

Good link, Merrick. Maybe the cryo isn't for everything?

Then again:

Maybe it's THIS that caused the damage, not the cryo? I mean, he's easily running temps that MAYchange the hardness of the metal.

I don't think you can make the case that cryo was a contributing factor to this engine failure in light of the above type of abuse the engine was subjected to. Maybe in a normally used engine with that damage you could say that the cryo caused it (or contributed). But the way Chris treats that truck, there are a million reasons for something to break.

Then again, maybe it was just Chris' love of breaking parts?

That said, it's perfectly possible that the cryo was a factor in parts breakage. It's just hard to draw that conclusion from Chris' usage profile.

jlh