12v FASS Users,Don't Let This Happen To You...
10-01-2007 | 08:57 AM
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12v FASS Users,Don't Let This Happen To You...
First let me start with the fact that this thread is intended for those owners who are and/or are considering a FASS for their 12v's.I intend to NOT flame the manufacturers as I want this thread to help other 12v FASS users to prevent what happened yesterday to my truck and could have been alot worse.The people at FASS,Diesel Dan and Brad,have been nothing short of helpful as has been the shops who do the work on my truck.
A little background for you all to digest...
Back last May I had some pressure issues with my factory lift pump and the fuel heater assembly was weeping.After doing some searching and knowing I was having a custom P-Pump built I decided to have a FASS unit installed on my truck.I chose the 150/95-1010 @ 45psi which is a very good pump.While the shop who did the install was doing the work I was following along and noticed that the kit for the 12v did not come with a relay kit to trigger the pump.Using a relay to trigger the pump is what and how we installed all my HP fuel systems on my drag cars and since I never did one on a diesel,I never thought a issue would come up.After being assured the instructions said to install on a keyed 12v power source I made the shop install a toggle switch to break the current and allow one more safety item to shut down the pump if needed.A 20amp load toggle was used,the pump installed and away I went with the truck.
A month or so later when chatting with Dave Mitchell while at EEP about a different charger he asked me if I knew what fuel pressure I had with my FASS.Silly me,I told him 45psi as its what My FASS was supposed to have.He told me we needed to check it so I had Craig install a fuel pressure gauge only to find out with the return line crimped,per Diesel Dan at FASS,I had a solid 34psi.Again I questioned the use of a 12v keyed power source and the non use of a relay and was assured the small fuse tap and keyed source was all that was needed.After having my work done at EEP and thanking the gang there for their work I bid them so long and left for PA.
On that trip home I stopped for fuel and dinner only to come out to the truck not starting and the FASS pump not running.When I made sure the toggle was flipped into the on position(making sure I did not have it off)the toggle fell apart in my hands and was melted.I made a quick direct tap and went home to change the toggle out to something stronger feeling the amperage draw was too much for a 20amp draw toggle.I changed to a 50 amp toggle and I also emailed Dan at FASS again questioning the non use of a relay in the 12v kit and some of my concerns about the lack of pressure which I felt were directly due to the small fuse tap and its not allowing the proper current to the FASS.Again,I was helped greatly by their knowledge and sent a different set of springs to try for my lower pressure issues,34psi instead of the 45psi it should have had.
That leads me to this weekends ordeal....
I come home late Saturday nite after work and when exiting the interstate the truck has a dead throttle and slow to respond.I turn off the stereo and immediately hear the FASS is not running and the fuel pressure is 0.I glide the truck into the abandoned lot and begin to look things over and all of a sudden the FASS come to life and being tired I did not think about it yet.I had ordered a Painless Wiring fuel pump relay kit a few weeks back and figured to get my winter service work done Sunday and install it then.
Sunday comes and I take the truck to have the relay installed and my winter service done and the below photo is what we found.As you can see the small fuse tap which was provided is not enough for a FASS alone.It had burnt the wire end and melted the insulation off the wire and had gotten so warm due to the pumps amperage draw it had melted into the fuel pressure gauge wire tap.How it did not short out I am not sure and how I didn't cause a fire I also do not know and consider myself lucky as we caught it in time.I knew better and should have used a relay to handle the amperage draw load and the toggle to switch it,no matter what was told to me.
So what did I learn you may ask...
Always trust your instincts,I knew better and it almost cost me with a short and possible fire.Many of my club members know how hard I work to keep my truck nice and at times I can get a tad carried away.This was one spot I wish I would have from the start and I would have had no issues.The fine folks at FASS make a GREAT product and had provided me with all the help I needed when I wanted it.At no time did they,FASS,not step up to the plate with help and actually Dan went above and beyond what most other would have.The end result was a safer way for the amperage draw to be outside the cab area and the use now of the toggle only as a trigger.
The FASS has been on my truck for better than 15,000 miles and now I have the pressure I should with it at 39psi.Considering I have 15k on the filters I feel I am now in the ballpark where I should be for pressure and I did not need the extra springs which were sent to me from Diesel Dan.The relay kit we used was a 50102 from Painless Performance and was easy to do and wire.Its worth the money and the extra effort to use it with your fuel system to prevent what may be a failure you do not want.
My posting this here is for those who may be considering this product for their 12v truck and hope that the FASS people change their thoughts and include a relay kit with the 12v pumps to help prevent anyone from this issue............Andy
BTW...THANKS to Scott at Renegade Diesel Performance for the all the help.
When you look at the photo below can you tell which is the wiring for the fuel pump?.
A little background for you all to digest...
Back last May I had some pressure issues with my factory lift pump and the fuel heater assembly was weeping.After doing some searching and knowing I was having a custom P-Pump built I decided to have a FASS unit installed on my truck.I chose the 150/95-1010 @ 45psi which is a very good pump.While the shop who did the install was doing the work I was following along and noticed that the kit for the 12v did not come with a relay kit to trigger the pump.Using a relay to trigger the pump is what and how we installed all my HP fuel systems on my drag cars and since I never did one on a diesel,I never thought a issue would come up.After being assured the instructions said to install on a keyed 12v power source I made the shop install a toggle switch to break the current and allow one more safety item to shut down the pump if needed.A 20amp load toggle was used,the pump installed and away I went with the truck.
A month or so later when chatting with Dave Mitchell while at EEP about a different charger he asked me if I knew what fuel pressure I had with my FASS.Silly me,I told him 45psi as its what My FASS was supposed to have.He told me we needed to check it so I had Craig install a fuel pressure gauge only to find out with the return line crimped,per Diesel Dan at FASS,I had a solid 34psi.Again I questioned the use of a 12v keyed power source and the non use of a relay and was assured the small fuse tap and keyed source was all that was needed.After having my work done at EEP and thanking the gang there for their work I bid them so long and left for PA.
On that trip home I stopped for fuel and dinner only to come out to the truck not starting and the FASS pump not running.When I made sure the toggle was flipped into the on position(making sure I did not have it off)the toggle fell apart in my hands and was melted.I made a quick direct tap and went home to change the toggle out to something stronger feeling the amperage draw was too much for a 20amp draw toggle.I changed to a 50 amp toggle and I also emailed Dan at FASS again questioning the non use of a relay in the 12v kit and some of my concerns about the lack of pressure which I felt were directly due to the small fuse tap and its not allowing the proper current to the FASS.Again,I was helped greatly by their knowledge and sent a different set of springs to try for my lower pressure issues,34psi instead of the 45psi it should have had.
That leads me to this weekends ordeal....
I come home late Saturday nite after work and when exiting the interstate the truck has a dead throttle and slow to respond.I turn off the stereo and immediately hear the FASS is not running and the fuel pressure is 0.I glide the truck into the abandoned lot and begin to look things over and all of a sudden the FASS come to life and being tired I did not think about it yet.I had ordered a Painless Wiring fuel pump relay kit a few weeks back and figured to get my winter service work done Sunday and install it then.
Sunday comes and I take the truck to have the relay installed and my winter service done and the below photo is what we found.As you can see the small fuse tap which was provided is not enough for a FASS alone.It had burnt the wire end and melted the insulation off the wire and had gotten so warm due to the pumps amperage draw it had melted into the fuel pressure gauge wire tap.How it did not short out I am not sure and how I didn't cause a fire I also do not know and consider myself lucky as we caught it in time.I knew better and should have used a relay to handle the amperage draw load and the toggle to switch it,no matter what was told to me.
So what did I learn you may ask...
Always trust your instincts,I knew better and it almost cost me with a short and possible fire.Many of my club members know how hard I work to keep my truck nice and at times I can get a tad carried away.This was one spot I wish I would have from the start and I would have had no issues.The fine folks at FASS make a GREAT product and had provided me with all the help I needed when I wanted it.At no time did they,FASS,not step up to the plate with help and actually Dan went above and beyond what most other would have.The end result was a safer way for the amperage draw to be outside the cab area and the use now of the toggle only as a trigger.
The FASS has been on my truck for better than 15,000 miles and now I have the pressure I should with it at 39psi.Considering I have 15k on the filters I feel I am now in the ballpark where I should be for pressure and I did not need the extra springs which were sent to me from Diesel Dan.The relay kit we used was a 50102 from Painless Performance and was easy to do and wire.Its worth the money and the extra effort to use it with your fuel system to prevent what may be a failure you do not want.
My posting this here is for those who may be considering this product for their 12v truck and hope that the FASS people change their thoughts and include a relay kit with the 12v pumps to help prevent anyone from this issue............Andy
BTW...THANKS to Scott at Renegade Diesel Performance for the all the help.
When you look at the photo below can you tell which is the wiring for the fuel pump?.
10-01-2007 | 09:00 AM
#2
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Here is a shot of the wire from the fuse block and the keyed 12v source.You can easily see that the included fuse tap and wire end is not enough for the amperage draw of the FASS and it needs to be switched by a relay.
The way I had the FASS wired was the way the instructions say to for a 12v.Power is drawn from a keyed 12v source.I ran from the keyed source,through the toggle to the pump.It should have been power through a circuit breaker and a relay with a 12v source to activate the pump on and off.I will include a final shot of the finished product.I only hope this does not cause me premature failure of my FASS due to the pump not recieving its proper amperage........Andy
The top photo is the wire end which was inside the fuse panel and the bottom is the Painless Fuel Pump Relay kit all wired in.
The way I had the FASS wired was the way the instructions say to for a 12v.Power is drawn from a keyed 12v source.I ran from the keyed source,through the toggle to the pump.It should have been power through a circuit breaker and a relay with a 12v source to activate the pump on and off.I will include a final shot of the finished product.I only hope this does not cause me premature failure of my FASS due to the pump not recieving its proper amperage........Andy
The top photo is the wire end which was inside the fuse panel and the bottom is the Painless Fuel Pump Relay kit all wired in.
10-01-2007 | 09:05 AM
#3
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From: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Good Post Hammer...sucks to have trouble like that!
FASS HPFP 180GP@50psi is going on the truck this week...with a relay just as I had planned on doing. I don't know why it was installed otherwise!
Chris
FASS HPFP 180GP@50psi is going on the truck this week...with a relay just as I had planned on doing. I don't know why it was installed otherwise!
Chris
10-01-2007 | 09:16 AM
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I don't know why it was installed otherwise!
Again..
I am only trying to prevent what happened to me and/or could happen if you do not use one if you use a FASS(or any afermarket HP fuel system) on a 12v.....................Andy
10-01-2007 | 10:49 AM
#5
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From: Jeffersonville, Ohio
It was installed by the manufacturers instructions and no relay is included in the 12v FASS units which was why it was done without.
Again..
I am only trying to prevent what happened to me and/or could happen if you do not use one if you use a FASS(or any afermarket HP fuel system) on a 12v.....................Andy
Again..
I am only trying to prevent what happened to me and/or could happen if you do not use one if you use a FASS(or any afermarket HP fuel system) on a 12v.....................Andy
Chris
10-01-2007 | 12:36 PM
#6
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 555
Likes: 5
From: Seattle, WA
It really sucks to hear stories like this.
But Hammer, I would really advise to get rid of all those fuse taps your got cluttered there. Fuse taps are just cheap and easy for aftermarket electronics, but in our experience at the shop, fuse taps are nothing but trouble. And seeing the many fuse taps you got hanging there, I would highly recommend getting a Painless Wiring Circut Boss, that way you have several additional dedicated circuts for your extra accessories.
But Hammer, I would really advise to get rid of all those fuse taps your got cluttered there. Fuse taps are just cheap and easy for aftermarket electronics, but in our experience at the shop, fuse taps are nothing but trouble. And seeing the many fuse taps you got hanging there, I would highly recommend getting a Painless Wiring Circut Boss, that way you have several additional dedicated circuts for your extra accessories.
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10-01-2007 | 01:30 PM
#8
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From: Martinsville IN
hello i have the 150/180 1010 @45psi and i have the same problem mine did but my wire and connecter were melted alot worse than that....yea i was thinkin that wire tap was a little chincey myself. also edit my post im not knocking fass i love mine runs like a dream. About a 3 months ago about a week after i got mine the motor burnt up so a called scheid were i bought it and dpp sent me another motor without a core only took like a dayjust wanted to share my story dpp is good people
10-01-2007 | 02:28 PM
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MikeR...
I have a wiring switch panel from ARC in my hands to rid all of those taps which I never liked anyway.The only ones left are power for the gauge lights and for the Intellidash system.I will agree they may be a problem and will be removed as soon as I can.
Diesel-Dan...
Again..I offer my many thanks with all the help you and the FASS people continue to give us owners and for the great product.....Andy
I have a wiring switch panel from ARC in my hands to rid all of those taps which I never liked anyway.The only ones left are power for the gauge lights and for the Intellidash system.I will agree they may be a problem and will be removed as soon as I can.
Diesel-Dan...
Again..I offer my many thanks with all the help you and the FASS people continue to give us owners and for the great product.....Andy
10-01-2007 | 10:20 PM
#10
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From: Disputanta, Virginia
Andy,,,,,,
Whats up with all that dust and dirt in the relay picture?
Looks like your slackin on the shining,,,,,,, let's get that area beside the relay washed & waxed up PRONTO!
Good info,,,
Whats up with all that dust and dirt in the relay picture?
Looks like your slackin on the shining,,,,,,, let's get that area beside the relay washed & waxed up PRONTO!
Good info,,,
10-01-2007 | 11:39 PM
#11
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Whats up with all that dust and dirt in the relay picture?
Looks like your slackin on the shining,,,,,,, let's get that area beside the relay washed & waxed up PRONTO!
Looks like your slackin on the shining,,,,,,, let's get that area beside the relay washed & waxed up PRONTO!
Come home to a empty home and work extra to make sure your all caught up with what was left for you which you didn't know about and yours too would show some dirt,LOL.I have been kinda busy and have not had a minute to myself let alone any detail time recently.I will get to it trust me......Andy
10-02-2007 | 05:39 PM
#12
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From: Holly Ridge, N.C.
It really sucks to hear stories like this.
But Hammer, I would really advise to get rid of all those fuse taps your got cluttered there. Fuse taps are just cheap and easy for aftermarket electronics, but in our experience at the shop, fuse taps are nothing but trouble. And seeing the many fuse taps you got hanging there, I would highly recommend getting a Painless Wiring Circut Boss, that way you have several additional dedicated circuts for your extra accessories.
But Hammer, I would really advise to get rid of all those fuse taps your got cluttered there. Fuse taps are just cheap and easy for aftermarket electronics, but in our experience at the shop, fuse taps are nothing but trouble. And seeing the many fuse taps you got hanging there, I would highly recommend getting a Painless Wiring Circut Boss, that way you have several additional dedicated circuts for your extra accessories.
Andy:
Thanks for your post and information on the FASS! Very well written buddy!
With NO offense to you or anything you have done, I agree with Mike on the fuse taps you have. Man, I really don't like those things either. FWIW, and per your advice to the Members, when my FASS 180 was installed, Brad Ingram @ Scheid Diesel made very sure there was a very good relay in my electrical connections to the FASS 180. I agree 100% with you Andy that they not only need to be there but SHOULD be there with ANY aftermarket fuel system. Heck, Johnner and I even had them with our little Holley Red Pusher Pumps on our 2001 and 2002 Dodge CTD 24 valve trucks.
Also like you, I would like to say that Dan @ FASS is a great guy and really takes good care of his customers in addition to constantly keeping an eye on this website to help any of his customers possibly having problems or concerns! Thanks for all you do for everyone here Dan!
--------
John_P
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