Williams to die
12-12-2005, 08:07 PM
#63
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Hope that I'm not out of line making one more comment. Several of "Tookie"'s friends testified about how he laughed at and made fun of the gurgling sounds that one of his victims made while dieing. I wonder how funny it is to him now.
12-12-2005, 08:11 PM
#64
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Why the concern over killing an innocent "Tookie". Hasnt he fessed up? (or has he? Hmmmm.) Tookie's time has come-he needs to go...and I mean that in a good Christian way. Now, Lets get the Party Started-(I'll bring the Potato Salad)
12-12-2005, 08:29 PM
#65
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Fry him. Whats with these murdering, car stealing, armed crooks, drug dealers , gang bangers , thouggs etc ,haveing more rights than law abiding citizens and victoms of crime.
12-12-2005, 08:40 PM
#68
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The US Supreme Court just denied the last appeal. The execution will take place. I certainly will not morn his death, but I will not be happier because he is dead either.
12-12-2005, 08:42 PM
#70
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As I sit here holding my newborn son I realize that there are many more important things in my world worth more than my life itself. I, like my father and his forefathers, and my children after me, believe that we are the protectors of our family. This great responsiblity I gladly accept, without reservation or remorse of any kind.
I sincerely feel for those of you who depend on others for Justice, as there is none to be had via the court system, or the death penalty would be carried out much more swiftly.
In my world Tookie would have never made it to trial and that gives me a very warm feeling inside.
Rick
I sincerely feel for those of you who depend on others for Justice, as there is none to be had via the court system, or the death penalty would be carried out much more swiftly.
In my world Tookie would have never made it to trial and that gives me a very warm feeling inside.
Rick
12-12-2005, 08:59 PM
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Forgive the long discourse, I do respect all the previous points of view, this is mine with a thought for a solution, not just an observation of deficiency.
It appears that neither imprisonment for any particular length of time nor the capital punishment really deter the most heinous crimes in our society. Multiple murders, drug trafficking, sexual crimes, pedophilia, and so on are still very much a sad part of our lives, a sad part of our society. Yes, in recent years a number of large metropolitan areas have managed to reduce their crime rates, but other less fortunate places have seen increases. So why do we bother? Couldn’t we just “convict” offenders (prove them guilty) and let them go? Maybe after conviction they would see the error of their ways and “reform.” We know for a fact that the prison system does NOT reform them, most of the “short” term inmates being repeat offenders. That is crazy you say? OF COURSE IT IS. There IS something wrong. We must fix that. So what is wrong? The system? Well it is a rather simple one: innocent till proven guilty, fair trial with representation and all, no cruel and unusual punishment. There is nothing wrong with it! And by the way, that has nothing to do with whether it is or is not the best anywhere. We as a decent and good people have the obligation to make it as good as we can, not just better than some other, but the best we can make it. It is not supposed to be a contest. But I digress. If it is not the system then where is the problem? With implementation. Innocent till proven guilty, well how is one to determine either if no one is or wants the truth? Prosecutors are only seeking that additional notch on their list of convictions, defense attorneys only the way to cast reasonable doubt. That may, and I say may work IF at least the two [prosecutor and defense attorney] were equally matched, in capabilities and resources. But even then the drive to succeed for the fame and resulting benefits, may skew the effort. What would be the result if there were no “prosecutors” and “defense lawyers” as we have today but just rated “jurists.” When a case comes up a team of equally rated jurist would be assigned to prepare for the case and at the opening of the trial based on a coin flip the sides would be determined one prosecuted on defends. Maybe it would be JUST? Maybe it would result in seeking the truth? I think so.
But lets go on. Why do we “try” and “sentence” the offenders in our society? Society MUST protect itself from the actions and individuals that it deems offensive. Offensive being defined by the laws society passes. The protection comes from separating from society, by incarceration, those individuals that society has deemed “guilty.” That it is during that period of separation, that the person in question should reform. It is not society’s duty or obligation to “reform” the person. That has to come from within, society’s obligation is to reaccept into its midst the reformed person. Bear in mind that spending time in prison is NOT equivalent to reformation. Protection also comes from deterrence. The deterrent factor being the “unpleasant” circumstance in which an offender has to spend time reforming. That unpleasant time should not include recreation means such as weight lifting areas, TV, socializing, conjugal visits, and so on. It should mean very Spartan living conditions that include only the bare necessities and work. Work that is sufficient self sustenance. Society should not support a person who chose to breaks its rules. And mandatory education, not just presence at classes but demonstrated progress too. Any individual that breaks the laws of society forfeits the rights that the same society grants its members. It makes perfect sense, by breaking the rules that a society has decided to live by, one rejects said society along with any and all the benefits it offers. Of course this is where the second set of problems starts appearing. “That” is cruel and unusual. What is cruel and unusual? Nobody knows but everybody argues against it. NOTHING is cruel and unusual that any society freely and consciously imposes on itself, for no rational person would impose on himself anything cruel or unusual, including the death penalty. What is cruel and unusual is keeping in limbo a person who was convicted and not carrying out the sentence, giving false hope.
To advocates of the possibility of wrongfully convicted I suggest putting the effort in making sure that at trial the truth is discovered, because only based on truth can justice be served. As to the very few that may become victims of wrongful convictions, well it is the price of deterrence, deterrence that would result from the immediate carrying out if sentences. No I do not say this lightly, since it is not my life, it truly would be a very sad thing to execute an innocent person, for all life is precious, but so is the victims.
It appears that neither imprisonment for any particular length of time nor the capital punishment really deter the most heinous crimes in our society. Multiple murders, drug trafficking, sexual crimes, pedophilia, and so on are still very much a sad part of our lives, a sad part of our society. Yes, in recent years a number of large metropolitan areas have managed to reduce their crime rates, but other less fortunate places have seen increases. So why do we bother? Couldn’t we just “convict” offenders (prove them guilty) and let them go? Maybe after conviction they would see the error of their ways and “reform.” We know for a fact that the prison system does NOT reform them, most of the “short” term inmates being repeat offenders. That is crazy you say? OF COURSE IT IS. There IS something wrong. We must fix that. So what is wrong? The system? Well it is a rather simple one: innocent till proven guilty, fair trial with representation and all, no cruel and unusual punishment. There is nothing wrong with it! And by the way, that has nothing to do with whether it is or is not the best anywhere. We as a decent and good people have the obligation to make it as good as we can, not just better than some other, but the best we can make it. It is not supposed to be a contest. But I digress. If it is not the system then where is the problem? With implementation. Innocent till proven guilty, well how is one to determine either if no one is or wants the truth? Prosecutors are only seeking that additional notch on their list of convictions, defense attorneys only the way to cast reasonable doubt. That may, and I say may work IF at least the two [prosecutor and defense attorney] were equally matched, in capabilities and resources. But even then the drive to succeed for the fame and resulting benefits, may skew the effort. What would be the result if there were no “prosecutors” and “defense lawyers” as we have today but just rated “jurists.” When a case comes up a team of equally rated jurist would be assigned to prepare for the case and at the opening of the trial based on a coin flip the sides would be determined one prosecuted on defends. Maybe it would be JUST? Maybe it would result in seeking the truth? I think so.
But lets go on. Why do we “try” and “sentence” the offenders in our society? Society MUST protect itself from the actions and individuals that it deems offensive. Offensive being defined by the laws society passes. The protection comes from separating from society, by incarceration, those individuals that society has deemed “guilty.” That it is during that period of separation, that the person in question should reform. It is not society’s duty or obligation to “reform” the person. That has to come from within, society’s obligation is to reaccept into its midst the reformed person. Bear in mind that spending time in prison is NOT equivalent to reformation. Protection also comes from deterrence. The deterrent factor being the “unpleasant” circumstance in which an offender has to spend time reforming. That unpleasant time should not include recreation means such as weight lifting areas, TV, socializing, conjugal visits, and so on. It should mean very Spartan living conditions that include only the bare necessities and work. Work that is sufficient self sustenance. Society should not support a person who chose to breaks its rules. And mandatory education, not just presence at classes but demonstrated progress too. Any individual that breaks the laws of society forfeits the rights that the same society grants its members. It makes perfect sense, by breaking the rules that a society has decided to live by, one rejects said society along with any and all the benefits it offers. Of course this is where the second set of problems starts appearing. “That” is cruel and unusual. What is cruel and unusual? Nobody knows but everybody argues against it. NOTHING is cruel and unusual that any society freely and consciously imposes on itself, for no rational person would impose on himself anything cruel or unusual, including the death penalty. What is cruel and unusual is keeping in limbo a person who was convicted and not carrying out the sentence, giving false hope.
To advocates of the possibility of wrongfully convicted I suggest putting the effort in making sure that at trial the truth is discovered, because only based on truth can justice be served. As to the very few that may become victims of wrongful convictions, well it is the price of deterrence, deterrence that would result from the immediate carrying out if sentences. No I do not say this lightly, since it is not my life, it truly would be a very sad thing to execute an innocent person, for all life is precious, but so is the victims.
12-12-2005, 09:31 PM
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Toby Keith - Beer For My Horses Lyrics
Toby Keith - Beer For My Horses Lyrics
Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the streets
For all the people to see
There are currently 688 men on death row in California. After Tookie only 687 left to go.
Capital punishment should be carried out swiftly, it is torture to keep a man waiting.
Oh and yes capital punishment is a deterrent. They will never ever do crime again.
Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the streets
For all the people to see
There are currently 688 men on death row in California. After Tookie only 687 left to go.
Capital punishment should be carried out swiftly, it is torture to keep a man waiting.
Oh and yes capital punishment is a deterrent. They will never ever do crime again.
12-12-2005, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DustyRock
Toby Keith - Beer For My Horses Lyrics
There are currently 688 men on death row in California. After Tookie only 687 left to go.
There are currently 688 men on death row in California. After Tookie only 687 left to go.
12-12-2005, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by runamuk
As I sit here holding my newborn son I realize that there are many more important things in my world worth more than my life itself. I, like my father and his forefathers, and my children after me, believe that we are the protectors of our family. This great responsiblity I gladly accept, without reservation or remorse of any kind.
I sincerely feel for those of you who depend on others for Justice, as there is none to be had via the court system, or the death penalty would be carried out much more swiftly.
In my world Tookie would have never made it to trial and that gives me a very warm feeling inside.
Rick
I sincerely feel for those of you who depend on others for Justice, as there is none to be had via the court system, or the death penalty would be carried out much more swiftly.
In my world Tookie would have never made it to trial and that gives me a very warm feeling inside.
Rick