thumper 549

Well i am a V.V. with some funky lil medal,And i know this, wars for the most part are a rich man's fought by poor man's sons,and I know this there are 2 sides to every story and even i forget that some times.B4 everyone wants to call him names and all, there is a side to him you do not know,where he has been, what he has been thrue.

spunbearing

That's kinda like saying that if you don't have children you shouldn't have an opinion about child molesters.

Fayte83

Heh, I wouldn't go as far to compair him to a child molester.. But I am trying to think of a way to maybe talk to him and hear what he has to say, and maybe even talk him in to going in by himself *Keeps dreaming* .. .. As I've been telling everyone in the PM's, I'm trying really hard to get his info. with out anyone finding out, I really dont want to cause any waves in such a small area, even though I know I'm trying to do the right thing...

CTDinMT

Fayte83 - I PM'd you. Do what your concience allows. If you give me the info, I will run with it. Probably the best thing you could do for this guy is convince him to turn himself in. His Courts-Martial will go much easier if he turns himself in. If he has to be captured, he will have established without a doubt in the jury's mind that he IS a DESERTER that did not ever intend to return to his unit. Just don't threaten to turn him in. Remember, your only a short hop-skip and jump from Canada. If he gets scared, he'll run. If he won't turn himself in, I told you what to do... -Steve

CTDinMT

If your a vet, then you know that we are DUTY BOUND as NCO's and military members to enforce the articles of the UCMJ. -Steve

joel

What funky lil medal? I've got lots of "funky lil medals", a few even for combat. Are you trying to modestly tell us you're a Medal of Honor winner? Or have a service cross? If so, congratulations and I'm truly very impressed and you have my respect. Having said that, it doesn't change a thing about our current discussion.

Wars USED to be a rich man's endeavour fought by poor man's sons. That was the model in the 1700s and 1800s in Europe. These days, it's not quite that simple. Yes, in places like Iraq or other 3rd world countries the corrupt leaders take all their national resources for themselves and send poor men to war so they can keep raking it in, but developed states have military members from all walks of life so when we fight it's everyone's sons, not just the poor. My family wasn't poor and wasn't rich. I opted to go into the Navy and have been in combat. There were people from families much more well off than mine and some much worse off.

Yes, there are 2 sides to every story, but the bottom line is this guy gave his word - swore an oath, in fact - to do his duty. And he up and walked away and has stayed away for a year now if fayte's information is correct. Yet - and this REALLY chaps me - HE IS USING HIS MILITARY ID AS IF HE WERE STILL ENTITLED TO DO SO!!!

Let's assume for a monent that there is a valid other side to his story. He still went to the recruiter and said I want to join the Army (or whatever service). I want you to teach me a skill. I want money for college (now gone since the VA will have him on their list as a deserter). It's 200X and I know the Army is a combat organization and I might have to pick up a gun and shoot someone (I mean c'mon, just how friggin' stupid do you have to be to NOT know that today???). And I agree to all this. I know it will be hard and I won't get paid all that much, especially at first. AND I AGREE. I'll SIGN THE OATH and SPEAK THE OATH.

There are avenues to bring up your grievences, including Chaplains. You won't always get your desire; in fact, if you've suddenly decided you're a Conscientious Objecter, there's a process for obtaining that status. One that doesn't include walking away. And yes, one that does include the chance that your application will be denied and you will be expected to live up to your word.

This guy walked away. Perhaps he did try all the appropriate channels and was denied. HE STILL WALKED AWAY from his committment. And, more importantly, he's now FLAUNTING it. What does that say about his character? Everyone seems to know his situation and is enabling him. Where are the values in that town??? He is still using his MILITARY ID!!! I wonder if he goes to the base to buy groceries at the commisary? Or to the base gym to work out? Would you really want this guy working for you?? I wouldn't want him to touch my truck; if it got too hard, he'd probably just walk away from that, too. Oh, and take the stereo and any tools he could find along the way.

Yes, there's two sides. But there's also ways to handle problems the right way, too. And this is a very different environment than the late 60s early 70s and Vietnam era. Again, not really applicable to this discussion.

You know? Even if you have a Medal of Honor and are saying what this guy did - and is still doing - is OK in any way, I guess you don't have my resepect after all.

CTDinMT - Canada's not an option any more though it does complicate things. Read this: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americ...da.soldier.ap/ Oh, and it's not just NCOs who are obligated to enforce the UCMJ - us officers are, too.

sherod

Well said Joel!

Ed

crobtex

A friend of my Nephew that is in Iraq has deserted the Navy. The Navy is contacting eveyone with a name on his records and asking if they know where he is. I don't know why he deserted, but I wish I knew where he was.

CTDinMT

Another thing to remember- The Armed Forces of today are different. Todays military are all VOLUNTEERS. In your day, many were draftee's, which still does not justify desertion, but there were many folks in the service then that just did not belong. This guy volunteered...
-Steve

crobtex

joel,

I agree with everything except the "(yay! out of TX!!)".

Dieseldude4x4

Right on.

joel

Hmmmm..... how about "WooHooo!! Out of TX!"? Or, "Hot ****! Out of TX!!" Amm... "Yipeekiay!! Out of TX!!" Or... ", TX... glad I'm outta there!!" Any of the above works for me....

converteddzlr

This might be a little like comparing apples to oranges, but just came across this article:

Missing Canadian soldier turns up in Bangkok

OTTAWA (CP) - In July 2003, Special Forces Sgt. Montgomery Paisley cleaned out his bank account, sorted out his affairs, and vanished after a commercial flight to Thailand.
A 16-year veteran of the military, the explosives expert had an exemplary record and no signs of personal problems, yet he simply disappeared after landing in Thailand on Aug. 1, 2003.

During an extensive probe, Canadian and Thai investigators found no trace of Paisley. Last week, he turned up at the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok after 21 months.

Although he was officially discharged from the service in December 2004, he returned to Canada on Wednesday escorted by members of the military's National Investigation Service, who travelled to Thailand to fetch him.

"Although the matter of his absence without authority is under investigation, his well-being and the welfare of his family are the (Canadian Forces') main concerns at this time," said a Defence Department statement.

Investigators executed search warrants and interviewed family and friends after Paisley did not return from what was supposed to have been a two-week vacation. They acknowledged at the time they had found "red flags."

Paisley had been a member of the commando unit Joint Task Force 2 for six years.

His service included a 2002 tour in Afghanistan with a Canadian battle group fighting Taliban and al-Qaeda holdouts out of Kandahar.

The Canadian Forces became particularly concerned about Paisley because his expertise was in explosives and defusing mines and booby traps.

Ottawa informed Thai police about his disappearance before the high-security Asia-Pacific economic summit in Bangkok in the fall of 2003.

While not believed to be a threat, he was thought to be carrying a laptop computer or notebook with bomb-making information. Interpol, the FBI and other international agencies were later alerted to his disappearance.

His trail went cold until April 7 when he approached Canadian officials in Thailand.

Citing his role in the highly secretive JTF-2 commando unit, the military has declined to release Paisley's home town, his marital status, his picture or his physical description.



© The Canadian Press, 2005




Ken

HOHN

Excellent post, sir.

Let me say this: I'm pretty informal as far as military captains go. I joke around with my troops from time to time and they with me. We have barbecues and we all get along pretty well. They don't report in to see me- they just knock. We talk cars and sports and what have you.

But they KNOW as surely as they are breathing that I *will* hold them accountable for their actions. DUI? Beat your wife? Miss an appointment? Drug use? HELL'S BELLS-- YOU WILL REGRET THE DAY YOU WERE BORN. I will prosecute you to the fullest extent possible. I will see that LOCs and LORS are just greasing the skids to get that Article 15 and send you packing. We are a volunteer force, and we CANNOT afford to be anything less than the best. You volunteered to come here, so there are NO excuses.

There have been times when it was the grace of God that kept me from ending my career by choking the crap out of some scumbag that really needed it. I thought I was going to pop a vein. She even threatened to get back at me by fabricating a claim of sexual harassment. I told her that I WISH she had *some* kind of excuse, and that because she didn't, she needed to just own her actions and move on.

Some of these kids now are pretty thin-skinned and lazy. Heaven forbid that PT is HARD-- that I make you push yourself. If I can do it at age 30, then you better dern well expect that I will hold you to that standard when you are 22!

But these lazy troops are far outnumbered by the amazing, quality people I get. One thing I love about my job is that I get professional performance from young kids that many leaders/managers would die to have-- and my troops do it for less money than you'd ever believe.

I'm sending ELEVEN people over to Iraq (1/3 of all my manning), where they will pull duty as truck gunners. These are USAF vehicle operators (drive truck, forklift, wrecker, etc) and they are going to be playing Army. I've already had two Bronze Star winners, a slew of Army Commendation Medal winners, and a Purple Heart (rec'd by 20 y.o. troop).

I've got EIGHT troops VOLUNTEERING to go! Some are volunteering to go BACK after already being over there 8 months last year.

I'd like to think that this is a reflection of my officership, but I know better. They'd be the same great troops under anyone else-- they were before I got here, and they will be afterward.

I think about getting out and going into civilian employment. But I think I am spoiled to be surrounded by such a high percentage of high-caliber people. It seems like any other job would be less somehow-- no matter what it pays.

America, if you could see these troops in action, you would be inspired, as I am each and every day. Your future is in good hands.

Your DTR USAF Captain, 21R3 LRO

gunracer1

he made a deal and didn't hold up his end. not much of a man in my book. anf i have my dd214. and joel said it about as well as it could be said.