CASMOKIN

My wife decided it would be nice to go to Alameda (Bay Area) for the 4th. They have a big annual parade and in past years weve really enjoyed it. So we took the kids and made the trip. ( We live in the Central Valley an area full of farm land, hard workers and overall somewhat conservative good kind folks) Everything was going great untill about half way through the parade I noticed literature that was being pased out to mostly kids, mine included. Some of the people in the parade were passing out fake one dollar bills with Pres. G.W on them looking like a bafoon. The fake bills had things such as 9-11 is a lie and a Bush conspiracy and all sorts of other crap that I cant remember. Then I noticed the STOP ARNOLD stickers that were being passed out. My blood was boiling, especially when I noticed my oldest son wearing one, hes nine, he didnt know what the sticker ment. He thought it was a fourth of July sticker. What are these Left Wing Nutts doing preying on little kids? The whole thing made me sick, the wife and I packed up and decided to go back home. As we were leaving, we drove down the same street the parade was on. One particular house caught my attention. The house had lots of flags in the front yard, all sorts of flags from other countries. Then I saw our American Flag, it was way in the back where you almost couldnt see it. What do you know, the rainbow flag was right up front! Unbelivable, the people over here. The thing is, nobody seemed to have a problem with it. I thought we were celebrating independace day, not Gay pride day? Whats the deal with these Libs pushing there political agenda on this day, on our kids? It makes no sence to me. Its a **** shame. As far as Im conserned when the big quake comes, the one thats supposed it split california right down the middle, Im gonna be a happy man, and ill only have a 10 min drive to the beach Good Ridence

crobtex

I'm glad this is a free country, but...........

These people have seen how terrorist and other groups take control by brainwashing the young and are trying the same tactic here.

DON'T LET THEM TAKE YOUR KIDS!

Begle1

Oh yeah, that's not hypocritical...


Kids will make up their own minds without and despite any influences from whoever. You seem to be just as guilty of pushing your political agenda upon your son as anybody who gave him a sticker.


(And he's only nine anyways... You can't really understand politics enough to make up your mind until you're 30 at least...)

CASMOKIN

Begle1
yes my son is 9, and I dont expect him to understand politics, nor do I discuss them with him. Although, he does understand who the President of the United States is, hes been brought up to respect the man for who he is regardless of what political party he belongs to. He also understand what the 4th of July is about . It sounds to me like you think its ok for our kids to be brainwashed with left wing garbage. As far as not being able to understand politics untill your 30, maybe that was the case for you. I must be ahead of the curve as Im 29 and Ive understood politics for quite a while. But then again you know what they say about CA school systems.

Begle1

It is okay for kids to be brainwashed with left-wing garbage as long as they are being brainwashed with right-wing garbage as well. Or they could just not be brainwashed at all. The point is that they need to have equal exposure to both sides in order to form a complete perception of the situation. Your actions are isolating your child from the whole story, which is the path to ignorance and mediocrity.

It would have been better if politics did not invade upon your Fourth of July celebration. But the way to handle the situation isn't to totally shun and isolate the other side of the political spectrum. Terrorists and zealots are made when that happens on the other side of the world.

Of course this is ultimately a moot point as your son is nine and doesn't understand any of it anyways, and you probably don't have enough control over what he encounters to significantly brainwash him even if it was your intention. In a few years it will not be a moot point, though.


And you're right; since your son is enrolled in the same school system that I am, he too will probably be an intellectual vegetable until he is at least 50...


Also, if you don't possess the ability to alter your point of view enough to see that you are having a much greater affect on you child's perception of the political world by running away from those who don't share your beliefs, then you do not grasp politics nearly as well as you believe you do.

CrashCade

Wow, this one could get out of hand really fast. He is guilty of pushing his political propeganda on his own 9 year old son. I am at a loss of words for that comment. Should he step back as a parent and let the outside world raise his kids like a lot of the unfortunate youth of these times. He$$ NO! His son can make up his own mind in due time, however, It is his right and responsibilty to raise his son and protect him from things that are not right, and immoral in his eyes and mind.

Begle1,

Not trying to personally attack, but parents should be the strongest influence in their childs life and a lot times that means teaching them the ways you know and were taught.

Edited: I am not saying sheltering your child is the way to do things by any means, and I do agree with the fact that he must eventually see the Whole picture; but until he reaches an age where it will make sense to him, I totally agree with protecting his child from such things.

Begle1

I agree with you completely on everything accept the above.

The gift which a parent gives to a child is perception. There are two divisions of perception: empathy and introspective. A child must be able to see inside of his own motivation and inside of others' motivations or else he will not learn to respect or interact with others. And a child cannot develop empathy if he is raised while isolated from those of different beliefs.


The raising of a child in a vacuum is a sure way to create an unthinking, zealous and disrespectful individual. A parent must teach their children to see into and understand the thinking of those of the opposite point of view or they will not be suitable for society.

EDITED:
That's the irony of the entire thing. The way I look at it is that the nine-year-old does not hold a significant understanding to be affected anyways.
And things shouldn't make sense for children. I don't believe in simplifying the world for them; rather, I believe they should be motivated to see and understand the full complexity of the world in order to develop their own perception as quickly as possible. Confusion is what promotes children to bother to figure things out and expand their viewpoints in the first place; if they think that they know all there is in the world, then why should they develop empathy?

Although those are hollow words as I am not a parent...

crobtex

Wrong again....there are a lot of good, young political minds on the right and the left.

Begle1

Good... Wouldn't want any false impressions abobut me to get leaked out anywhere... Take my words for however hollow as you believe they are, but the idea of isolating your child from the left-wing in order to avoid his brainwashing is still hypocritical. When you isolate your child from the left you are brainwashing him to the right. The isolater is much more guilty of brainwashing than the lefty preaching his beliefs.


A child is only influenced by what he is exposed to if what he is exposed to limits his ability to clearly percieve the world. As long as he is exposed to the entire spectrum then he will have enough empathy to respect all sides and form his own inner point of view. Children are ultimately influenced by what they are exposed to only if they are not exposed to the entire spectrum.

Example: A child lives in a world with the colors green and red only. He is only ever exposed to green and red. He has never seen blue, but he has been told that blue is evil and sucks. His lack of exposure to blue influences him to think that either red or green are his favorite colors. But if he is exposed to red, green and blue, then no amount of anti-blue preaching can influence him away from the color blue. (Provided, of course, that blue is actually his favorite color and he has nothing to gain or loose be picking that color. He may find it that it benefits him to pick his second favorite color over his first favorite color, but that is a result of the world itself and not his exposure to it.)

Okay, I was exaggerating about the "30 years". My point was that a nine-year-old isn't old enough to understand politics, and nothing can help you comprehend politics other than experience. I myself am under 30 years, so if you want me to I can be my own counterexample.

crobtex

Wrong again...a child does not have to be exposed to all of the spectrum. Right or wrong, why does a parent have to expose the child to something they believe is wrong, unlawful, immoral, etc? Why gamble your kids lives?
The 9-11 terrorist are a good example. They lived in this country and saw both sides of the spectrum, but chose the evil side anyway. Did they " respect all sides and form his own inner point of view", as you said, and do the right thing? The individual people in New York and Washington and the people they associated with while they were here had done nothing to them.

Associate your children with the spectrum's of the "good" and be sure they understand the evils and pains of the spectrum's of the "bad".

Clunk

That's the way I raised mine Crobtex. They're all voters too!

BigBlue

Easy yall.

CASMOKIN

Well, all I have left to say is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions...after all, every political party, every race, and every religion has equal rights in America. But I must clairfy that I didn't speak of not teaching my children equality for all parties involved. I never said that I looked at my son and told him how wrong myself and my wife thought it was, all I did was express my opinions to adults who may understand, who in turn misinterpreted that I must have expressed my aggressions to my son. My main point to tap into was that the very celebration of Independance Day was violated by people choosing not to respect why we all gather together as American people on July 4th. If you wish to dwell on an overanalysis with analyzations...talk about being over zealous...whether I may influence a favorite color on my child, I never said that his least favorite would be ugly or that it would be wrong to be an individual and choose a color for himself or change his mind in the future. For your information fortunately, he is not going to be an "intellectual vegetable" within the faulty California school system because he is home-schooled. And because of that he is a very well-rounded 9 year old that has experienced more in 9 years that many will experience in a lifetime and knows not the issues from left to right, but knows and understands the meaning of our Independant country! I may live my life, raising My kids with My morals, My values, My belief systems...they are mine, after all. All I see you saying really is that if I am a Catholic, that I should tell my son, at 9 years old to study Zen Budhism just so he is well diversed and unbiased. Go figure???

Deezle98

While i tend to lean more towards the left, i do believe that they had no right use the 4th of july as a way to spread their political message. But also ask yourself if you would feel the same way if they were spreading right winged political messages about?

CrashCade

I will have to agree the 4th of July is a holiday to show respect and enjoy the freedoms of which we have. It was unfortunate that some people took it upon themselves(one of the many freedoms) to bring to light their opinions and beliefs. There is a time and place for everything and it is apparent that timing was a huge issue in this matter.