dieselcarpenter

I have the utmost respect for the law and those who have chosen to protect and serve. But, I work nights as a pizza delivery driver in the wifes car. While returning to the shop I and another car were traveling at 35 mph even with my front bumper even with his rear I in the left hand lane of two. Local PD comes racing up in the right lane, the other guy slows down slightlty as do I, the gap widens enough for half a cruiser and the Officer in question flicks on his left signal and begins to excecute a lane change RIGHT INTO ME!!!

So what can I do I? I lay into my horn and slam the brakes. He blows past us into the red light of a left turn lane, stops, then flicks on his light bar and blows the red!

Are they allowed to do this? All I hear is that they are police who is going to stop them, then we get PSA's all the time on the radio from the PD about obeyihng traffic laws. So I ask what gives?? Do I just have to live with speeding, cut-offs, and failure to signal lane changes??

I thought that they were the example, yet I see more traffic violations from the enforces then private citzens on any given night.

If there is nothing that can be done then, oh well. But I would have expected better from those I pay with tax dollars to enforce the laws.


This is not meant to offend or start a big political debate, rather to find out if Police can pick and choose laws to obey or if they are given a free pass because of their position.

Totallyrad

Was it a bad decision on his part at the time, yes probably. Now here's the but, you don't know what he was responding to. Unfortunately, the law usually states he has to use both lights and siren in combination when necessary while responding to an emergency. The problem is that when doing so you telegraph your arrival long before you get there. In order to catch your bad guys you usually have to skirt the SOP a little. If you use good judgment, unlike this case, nothing is usually said one way or the other. So let me put it this way, if he was responding to your house because you called and were watching a thug break into your truck, which would you want? Would you want him to turn on the siren and lights and scare him away, leaving you with a damaged vehicle and no one in custody OR would you want him to get there and actually catch the guy? I like the second choice personally and just maybe he'll resist a little.

BC847

That mess about "What if he was responding to your house" is a load of cow pies!

No matter who you are LEO, FF, or EMS, you take your life, and that of others into your hands when driving emergency traffic.

NO ONE can save anything if they themselves become another victim to rescue.

EDIT~

But that doesn't matter . . . . they're covered confusingly either way . . . maybe . . . http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...=17000-17004.7 (lawyer speak )

Totallyrad

Obviously you live a perfect life in a perfect world, my apologies, I don't. Yes, you must get there, I did not agree with his actions but there are times you have to break the rules in order to get the desired outcome.

BC847

No, my mess stinks just like anyone else's. And I fully understand what sometimes needs to be done to effect the end (these days one can't discuss it openly as it could possibly imply liability ) See extreme 10/18 vs regular 10/18 traffic. In court, a lawyer may ask you to explain the difference.

But the SOP response of clouding the truth with words of presumed nobility are bull stinky in my opinion. NCDOT certified emergency vehicle driver ~ 13 years.



LOL! The saying "Paramedics save lives, EMT's save paramedics" comes to mind.

Totallyrad

I searched here and 3 pages of Google and did not see the 10/18 info you are referring to, only an arrest and appeal for a suspended license. Since we are both drifting off topic and heading down the wrong road, I'll stop with this post.

DC, if you want to go further, you can contact the PD and either file an official complaint or contact the shift supervisor on that shift and sit down with him to talk about it. You'd probably feel better in the long run with the second option.

BC847

Agreed, sorry for the hijack. And please forgive my seemingly short response. Hit a nerve.

K4RAM

Though I am not an LEO in CA, I am an LEO in NV. That being said, laws may vary but I would not imagine too much. There are often times LEOs respond to calls that are not considered "EMERGENCIES". When responding to a call that is not an emergency, such as a Property Damage Accident, we have to get there as quickly as possible but also safely without the use of ligts and sirens. LEOs should always drive safely and cautiously even while running especially with lights and sirens activated.

Even with lights and sirens activated we still have to use extreme caution. We are NOT required to use our siren all the time but must use lights and sirens when clearing an intersection. While responding to say a life threatening emergency and approach an intersection, we must have both lights/sirens activated. Then, when we are sure we have control of the intersection and it is safe to continue, then we may continue.

I cannot speak for the LEO you witnessed, but I will say that I would not approach an intersection without lights, then turn them on just to go through a red. If I needed to go through a red light, I would have had my lights on the entire time. However, the LEO in question may have been recieving the call info as he was approaching the intersection or the situation changed so he needed to expedite his response.

Too many variables and "maybe's" to give a straight answer but I hope this helps somewhat. In a nut shell, If I cause an accident while responding to a call, me being an LEO does not release me from being at fault. Even if I am running full CODE I am still required to drive safely

You do have the right to contact a police agency, ask to speak with a Sergeant, and inform him of what occured or what you witnessed. More times than not the sergeant will find out what happened and respond back to you.

Rob

jthorpe

Tell me that when you need an officer ASAP and it takes him 30 minutes to get there because he had to drive 30 minutes from across the county. If I'm too slow, I get yelled at by the public. If I'm too fast, then I get a sheet to sign by a supervisor. Name a perfect speed man, and I'll drive it so that I can keep the world a happy place.

Well if that's the case, then you should know better than anyone that the law doesn't require us to respond lights and sirens in all cases of emergency in this state. Ever hear of the term "Due Regard"?

In this guys' case, maybe his due regard lapsed a little bit, or he might have had a few things going on and was receiving a call on the MDT, radio or both. DOT doesn't qualify you as an expert on how an LEO should drive. God forbid an LEO makes a mistake in this country.

12valve@heart

You have hit on one of my pet peeves. I have very high regard for most LEOs but the ones that aggravate me are the HiPos that blow by you at 10-20+ over the limit with no lights on. Seen the same with local LEO too. Speed limit is 65 to 75 depending on the highway but IMO, if they need to run hot, they should be lit up. Can anyone offer a valid excuse for running hot on the highway w/o lights? I understand not wanting to run lights and sirens if you're approaching a crime in progress but that will rarely be the case on the interstate. I second the opinion that when not responding to a call but just patrolling, LEOs ought to be the model to follow when driving, not the exception to the laws.

jthorpe

I'm not going to give you a huge explanation but I'll say that with my lights on, it can become much more dangerous because of mindless drivers slamming in their brakes in front of me, right in the middle of a highway. I could write a book on this, but I'll leave it alone.

Ride with me for a week and your opinion might change.

oscaroc

I have to agree with this. Due to my partial hearing loss i usually don't hear emergency vehicles until I see them in a mirror. I do think that emergency vehicles become a hazard as soon as they turn the lights or sirens on because people panic instantly. Therefore I can see why they use caution with lights and sirens. Do some abuse this? I am sure there are a few, there is always one bad apple.

Lary Ellis (Top)

I will add one thing to this in an effort to shine a little different light on it.....I know many of the local LE's in my area. As a licensed Gunsmith I do business with them and I know them socially as well.

One of them is the Commander of our local State Police Barracks, and he drives an unmarked car between his Office in the State capital and the local Barracks.

I happen to be getting on the Interstate one day heading toward the State Capital and realised he was directly in front of me. At this point he rolled down his window and threw out his styrofoam cup of coffee and took off.

It upset me to see him litter like that right in front of me, but I know him to be a good man and GREAT Cop. I think the bottom line here people is that these guys are human, just like us and they make the same mistakes we do.

Don't judge them too harshly when you see something like this, there may be a good reason for it that just isn't apparent to us at the moment. Maybe he was juggling that cup of coffee and a microphone and a pen and paper trying to write down a number or address he needed in a big hurry.?

Anyway.... you see my point here, People make mistakes everyday and we should not expect our LE's to be above normal human behavior.

mopardamo

Hello,

i disagree completely. When I am doing my JOB i am fully expected to be a professional and not a layman. We are all expected to perform at a higher level when doing our job and excuses are just that, excuses. I work in the private sector and would likely be fired or severely reprimanded for such actions(abuse of authority). I personally expend extreme effort in my job to be the best. When I make even a small mistake I feel terrible for days. Excusing people for mistakes is politically correct these days but then again I am not politically correct always. I hate passing the moral and ethical buck.

Damon

K4RAM

I hear ya... And they don't realize you can't pass them on the right with lights activated. Now you have to wait until they finally wakeup and pull to the right so you can get by.