Question for Army - Active Duty Senior Enlisted
02-20-2008, 09:22 PM
#31
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Iraq shows you some very interesting sides of soldiers. I have seen a number of things that, had I been on Active Duty, would have caused some NCO a lot of pain.
The Army has put a uniform in place and told soldiers not to do anything but wash it. Not like when boots could be shined and uniforms could be pressed.
Bottom line: Leaders inspire their soldiers. Some are not and do not wish to.
Hal
The Army has put a uniform in place and told soldiers not to do anything but wash it. Not like when boots could be shined and uniforms could be pressed.
Bottom line: Leaders inspire their soldiers. Some are not and do not wish to.
Hal
Bansh also has revealed some personal experiences that shed a poor light.
between the both of you, here's what i see:
-the Army has probably got a leadership problem (as someone posted - a "large" organization is harder to fix)
-the decisions made may not always be the best
-the level of command above a Privates immediate chain of command should be able to fix some things.
can we agree on that?
so here's my question: I did 20 years of hard core service, long days, all nighters, back to back Mediterranean deployments. up a few days at a time, making sure National Level Tasking got completed. ( "support for the grunts" as Command Sergeant Major called it )
i think there is nothing better than a military retirement check and retired benefits. i tell EVERYONE to stay in the military, not just for the $$, but for the job training, work skills, and to learn inter personal skills that make you successful later in life.
( i work in a ex-military environment, and after a few hours working with someone, you can tell what Rank they were when they got out. you can almost read the posts on here, and tell what a guys rank is. )
but, if we agree that the Army has a problem, and females will bear the short end of the stick,
do i recommend her to stay in the Army past her current enlistment?
she's at a Motor Pool now, basically, her MOS is considered "spare useless bodies" all the way up to E5 (and a few E6's are there)
and she's wanting to get out of the Army.
i told her NOT to get out. a new First Sgt is coming next month.
i told her to get a read on the new First Sgt before making a decision.
one of the Sgt's she has now is just off Drill Instructor duty, and thinks he is still there. maybe he's tainting the command atmosphere?
02-20-2008, 10:16 PM
#32
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let's keep it a civil exchange of factual opinions. we've all met a few turds.
Hal, you have made some very good points.
Bansh also has revealed some personal experiences that shed a poor light.
between the both of you, here's what i see:
-the Army has probably got a leadership problem (as someone posted - a "large" organization is harder to fix)
-the decisions made may not always be the best
-the level of command above a Privates immediate chain of command should be able to fix some things.
can we agree on that?
so here's my question: I did 20 years of hard core service, long days, all nighters, back to back Mediterranean deployments. up a few days at a time, making sure National Level Tasking got completed. ( "support for the grunts" as Command Sergeant Major called it )
i think there is nothing better than a military retirement check and retired benefits. i tell EVERYONE to stay in the military, not just for the $$, but for the job training, work skills, and to learn inter personal skills that make you successful later in life.
( i work in a ex-military environment, and after a few hours working with someone, you can tell what Rank they were when they got out. you can almost read the posts on here, and tell what a guys rank is. )
but, if we agree that the Army has a problem, and females will bear the short end of the stick,
do i recommend her to stay in the Army past her current enlistment?
she's at a Motor Pool now, basically, her MOS is considered "spare useless bodies" all the way up to E5 (and a few E6's are there)
and she's wanting to get out of the Army.
i told her NOT to get out. a new First Sgt is coming next month.
i told her to get a read on the new First Sgt before making a decision.
one of the Sgt's she has now is just off Drill Instructor duty, and thinks he is still there. maybe he's tainting the command atmosphere?
Hal, you have made some very good points.
Bansh also has revealed some personal experiences that shed a poor light.
between the both of you, here's what i see:
-the Army has probably got a leadership problem (as someone posted - a "large" organization is harder to fix)
-the decisions made may not always be the best
-the level of command above a Privates immediate chain of command should be able to fix some things.
can we agree on that?
so here's my question: I did 20 years of hard core service, long days, all nighters, back to back Mediterranean deployments. up a few days at a time, making sure National Level Tasking got completed. ( "support for the grunts" as Command Sergeant Major called it )
i think there is nothing better than a military retirement check and retired benefits. i tell EVERYONE to stay in the military, not just for the $$, but for the job training, work skills, and to learn inter personal skills that make you successful later in life.
( i work in a ex-military environment, and after a few hours working with someone, you can tell what Rank they were when they got out. you can almost read the posts on here, and tell what a guys rank is. )
but, if we agree that the Army has a problem, and females will bear the short end of the stick,
do i recommend her to stay in the Army past her current enlistment?
she's at a Motor Pool now, basically, her MOS is considered "spare useless bodies" all the way up to E5 (and a few E6's are there)
and she's wanting to get out of the Army.
i told her NOT to get out. a new First Sgt is coming next month.
i told her to get a read on the new First Sgt before making a decision.
one of the Sgt's she has now is just off Drill Instructor duty, and thinks he is still there. maybe he's tainting the command atmosphere?
The guy that’s giving her a hard time is a classic example of guys tooting their own horn and trying to live off the past. Well unfortunately that doesn't always work. Great he was a Drill instructor, the main take away for this guy should be the word WAS... he needs to re-evaluate where he is at and start treating people like humans and not like a recruits.
This last enlistment made me see how jacked up alot of things are in the fleet. I couldn’t tell you when the last time I yelled at someone was. But in the fleet it’s like that’s the only way people know how to function. By cussing, screaming, and cutting someone down.
You talked about the E-5 and E-6 being spare useless bodies, I just don’t understand this concept. I guess that is yet again another difference between the two services? We don't just have an abundance of Sgt's laying round that are spare bodies..... You pickup Sgt for one reason in the Marines. And it’s not to sit and be a "spare body"
Edit: just to test your statement "you can almost read the posts on here, and tell what a guys rank is." out of curiosity what’s my rank?
02-21-2008, 07:30 AM
#33
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let's keep it a civil exchange of factual opinions. we've all met a few turds.
Hal, you have made some very good points.
Bansh also has revealed some personal experiences that shed a poor light.
between the both of you, here's what i see:
-the Army has probably got a leadership problem (as someone posted - a "large" organization is harder to fix)
-the decisions made may not always be the best
-the level of command above a Privates immediate chain of command should be able to fix some things.
can we agree on that?
so here's my question: I did 20 years of hard core service, long days, all nighters, back to back Mediterranean deployments. up a few days at a time, making sure National Level Tasking got completed. ( "support for the grunts" as Command Sergeant Major called it )
i think there is nothing better than a military retirement check and retired benefits. i tell EVERYONE to stay in the military, not just for the $$, but for the job training, work skills, and to learn inter personal skills that make you successful later in life.
( i work in a ex-military environment, and after a few hours working with someone, you can tell what Rank they were when they got out. you can almost read the posts on here, and tell what a guys rank is. )
but, if we agree that the Army has a problem, and females will bear the short end of the stick,
do i recommend her to stay in the Army past her current enlistment?
she's at a Motor Pool now, basically, her MOS is considered "spare useless bodies" all the way up to E5 (and a few E6's are there)
and she's wanting to get out of the Army.
i told her NOT to get out. a new First Sgt is coming next month.
i told her to get a read on the new First Sgt before making a decision.
one of the Sgt's she has now is just off Drill Instructor duty, and thinks he is still there. maybe he's tainting the command atmosphere?
Hal, you have made some very good points.
Bansh also has revealed some personal experiences that shed a poor light.
between the both of you, here's what i see:
-the Army has probably got a leadership problem (as someone posted - a "large" organization is harder to fix)
-the decisions made may not always be the best
-the level of command above a Privates immediate chain of command should be able to fix some things.
can we agree on that?
so here's my question: I did 20 years of hard core service, long days, all nighters, back to back Mediterranean deployments. up a few days at a time, making sure National Level Tasking got completed. ( "support for the grunts" as Command Sergeant Major called it )
i think there is nothing better than a military retirement check and retired benefits. i tell EVERYONE to stay in the military, not just for the $$, but for the job training, work skills, and to learn inter personal skills that make you successful later in life.
( i work in a ex-military environment, and after a few hours working with someone, you can tell what Rank they were when they got out. you can almost read the posts on here, and tell what a guys rank is. )
but, if we agree that the Army has a problem, and females will bear the short end of the stick,
do i recommend her to stay in the Army past her current enlistment?
she's at a Motor Pool now, basically, her MOS is considered "spare useless bodies" all the way up to E5 (and a few E6's are there)
and she's wanting to get out of the Army.
i told her NOT to get out. a new First Sgt is coming next month.
i told her to get a read on the new First Sgt before making a decision.
one of the Sgt's she has now is just off Drill Instructor duty, and thinks he is still there. maybe he's tainting the command atmosphere?
Its a hard call to tell her to quit the Army. Is she motivated to try to do something about it from the inside? Its a harder path but the Army obviously needs some REAL leadership right now. There are options she can apply for to get herself out of the situation she is in and become a better leader in the Army. But it involves sucking it up for a bit. She has what it takes to join up in the first place (which seams to be scarce these days) and for that I commend her. Feeling like your entire command is against you is incredibly hard, no question. These are the people who are supposed to have your back.
Back when I was first in I didnt really fit in with my first unit. We just didnt mesh for what ever reason. Lots of ribbing by them to me. Untill the day someone from another unit tried to mess with me. It started a brawl. I realized then that even though I didnt fit in, I still had my platoon backing me up.
But back to your daughter. If she does decide to stay strong in and try to assert some leadership then she needs to get better first off! And while her leg is getting better she should show up early and stay late for anything that needs to be done. Once out for the day she needs to make a bee line for the gym and work anything she can with out hurting her leg. That way she is showing her command and fellow solders that she isnt malingering.
Her other options for staying in and advancing her career are, apply to the US Military Academy or apply for OCS (you go to college on the .gov dime and come back a 2ndlt). If she is really getting it bad at her unit, have her talk to her chaplain and see what she can do to get a transfer to another unit, though I would recommend staying over that.
I would never have gotten out if I had had the choice, but I got medically discharged couldnt do anything about it. But then I was in the Corps not the Army.
02-21-2008, 07:38 AM
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Without a doubt they all have the bad. How ever the Army was the most screwed up group i have ever worked with. Don’t get me wrong there are PLENTY of turds in the Marines. I'm by no means saying there isn’t. But these guys will at best get to become a corporal. Where as the Army seems to be fine with putting idiots in charge of those fighting.
One very interesting experience with the army that was the final straw for me was my 2nd tour in Iraq. We where listing to the plain text freq and heard an army unit calling in an ambush like 4 clicks up. We sped up to get up there and fight. Around 1200 or so meters from the reported enemy contact there was an army version of a Marine CAAT platoon. or a combined anti armor team platoon. not sure what the army calls them. Basically they are intended to kill tanks. They are armed with Mk19, 50cals and tows. In full UPP armored humvees. Rather then getting in there to help there fellow soldiers in a pinch they stopped their convoy and waited until the enemy left...
They then proceeded to try and tell us we could not go any farther because of an enemy ambush that consists of AKs RPKs and RPG's. So these guys that are LOADED with heavy machine guns rockets gernades you name it where not going to fight with some insurgents with aks and rpgs? And this is the army you’re trying to defend? These guys won't even fight for each other???
One very interesting experience with the army that was the final straw for me was my 2nd tour in Iraq. We where listing to the plain text freq and heard an army unit calling in an ambush like 4 clicks up. We sped up to get up there and fight. Around 1200 or so meters from the reported enemy contact there was an army version of a Marine CAAT platoon. or a combined anti armor team platoon. not sure what the army calls them. Basically they are intended to kill tanks. They are armed with Mk19, 50cals and tows. In full UPP armored humvees. Rather then getting in there to help there fellow soldiers in a pinch they stopped their convoy and waited until the enemy left...
They then proceeded to try and tell us we could not go any farther because of an enemy ambush that consists of AKs RPKs and RPG's. So these guys that are LOADED with heavy machine guns rockets gernades you name it where not going to fight with some insurgents with aks and rpgs? And this is the army you’re trying to defend? These guys won't even fight for each other???
Were they told to hold?
There might be a number of things you are not aware of, in that situation.
Hal
02-21-2008, 07:52 AM
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let's keep it a civil exchange of factual opinions. we've all met a few turds.
Hal, you have made some very good points.
Bansh also has revealed some personal experiences that shed a poor light.
between the both of you, here's what i see:
-the Army has probably got a leadership problem (as someone posted - a "large" organization is harder to fix)
-the decisions made may not always be the best
-the level of command above a Privates immediate chain of command should be able to fix some things.
can we agree on that?
so here's my question: I did 20 years of hard core service, long days, all nighters, back to back Mediterranean deployments. up a few days at a time, making sure National Level Tasking got completed. ( "support for the grunts" as Command Sergeant Major called it )
i think there is nothing better than a military retirement check and retired benefits. i tell EVERYONE to stay in the military, not just for the $$, but for the job training, work skills, and to learn inter personal skills that make you successful later in life.
( i work in a ex-military environment, and after a few hours working with someone, you can tell what Rank they were when they got out. you can almost read the posts on here, and tell what a guys rank is. )
but, if we agree that the Army has a problem, and females will bear the short end of the stick,
do i recommend her to stay in the Army past her current enlistment?
she's at a Motor Pool now, basically, her MOS is considered "spare useless bodies" all the way up to E5 (and a few E6's are there)
and she's wanting to get out of the Army.
i told her NOT to get out. a new First Sgt is coming next month.
i told her to get a read on the new First Sgt before making a decision.
one of the Sgt's she has now is just off Drill Instructor duty, and thinks he is still there. maybe he's tainting the command atmosphere?
Hal, you have made some very good points.
Bansh also has revealed some personal experiences that shed a poor light.
between the both of you, here's what i see:
-the Army has probably got a leadership problem (as someone posted - a "large" organization is harder to fix)
-the decisions made may not always be the best
-the level of command above a Privates immediate chain of command should be able to fix some things.
can we agree on that?
so here's my question: I did 20 years of hard core service, long days, all nighters, back to back Mediterranean deployments. up a few days at a time, making sure National Level Tasking got completed. ( "support for the grunts" as Command Sergeant Major called it )
i think there is nothing better than a military retirement check and retired benefits. i tell EVERYONE to stay in the military, not just for the $$, but for the job training, work skills, and to learn inter personal skills that make you successful later in life.
( i work in a ex-military environment, and after a few hours working with someone, you can tell what Rank they were when they got out. you can almost read the posts on here, and tell what a guys rank is. )
but, if we agree that the Army has a problem, and females will bear the short end of the stick,
do i recommend her to stay in the Army past her current enlistment?
she's at a Motor Pool now, basically, her MOS is considered "spare useless bodies" all the way up to E5 (and a few E6's are there)
and she's wanting to get out of the Army.
i told her NOT to get out. a new First Sgt is coming next month.
i told her to get a read on the new First Sgt before making a decision.
one of the Sgt's she has now is just off Drill Instructor duty, and thinks he is still there. maybe he's tainting the command atmosphere?
I agree fully about retirement. My father retired after 26 years in 1946. Passed in 1987 - 41 years of retirement pay, far more than he earned on active duty. My mother drew SBP for another 16 years. I have been retired 12 years and have probably come close to equaling what I made in 24 years of active duty. At 53, I figure there may be a few more years of retirement checks coming in.
The military as a long tear commitment. I for one enlisted at 18. I knew then that I wanted to be in for a while. A kid from Sandy High in Sandy Oregon, high school diploma. Got to spend 13 years in Germany - when most of the folks I graduated with have never been out of Oregon. Took advantage of most everything I could. Have a 4 year degree and then some. Got to lead some of the greatest soldiers I have ever met.
Got to be the Platoon Sergeant of a platoon that the Squadron Commander had dubed the "Animals" before I arrived. In a short time they were the best platoon in the Troop and Squadron. It is a great life - if it is what you want.
What MOS does your daughter hold?
I would agree that there are problems with any service - people make the problems.
Drill Sergeants comming off the trail often have a hard time leaving the hat behind. For a lot it is the place where they learn the most about being a NCO.
Hal
02-21-2008, 01:22 PM
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Don't know about where you were but, there are some places in Iraq where heavy weapons can not be used (hearts and minds stuff). Not the correct response, IMHO, but it is what it is.
Were they told to hold?
There might be a number of things you are not aware of, in that situation.
Hal
Were they told to hold?
There might be a number of things you are not aware of, in that situation.
Hal
If they where told ot hold it was from within thier convoy. There was nothing keeping us from going into the fight over the main net for that part of the MSR. and we carry the same weapons they had minus the tows. Wouldn't make much sense that they couldnt go in but we could? So in the end the Marines ended up killing like 27 and critically wounding another 9. No telling how many more got away. Had these guy got the support they needed the numbers could not only have been higher on the enemy side but our guys would have had less vehicles got lost and less injuries. Luckly no American troops got killed but a few took frag from RPG's
02-21-2008, 01:36 PM
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Wel it was kind of middle of no where heading on the MSR from BIAP to Balad sp?
If they where told ot hold it was from within thier convoy. There was nothing keeping us from going into the fight over the main net for that part of the MSR. and we carry the same weapons they had minus the tows. Wouldn't make much sense that they couldnt go in but we could? So in the end the Marines ended up killing like 27 and critically wounding another 9. No telling how many more got away. Had these guy got the support they needed the numbers could not only have been higher on the enemy side but our guys would have had less vehicles got lost and less injuries. Luckly no American troops got killed but a few took frag from RPG's
If they where told ot hold it was from within thier convoy. There was nothing keeping us from going into the fight over the main net for that part of the MSR. and we carry the same weapons they had minus the tows. Wouldn't make much sense that they couldnt go in but we could? So in the end the Marines ended up killing like 27 and critically wounding another 9. No telling how many more got away. Had these guy got the support they needed the numbers could not only have been higher on the enemy side but our guys would have had less vehicles got lost and less injuries. Luckly no American troops got killed but a few took frag from RPG's
Have no idea why. Sounds to me like they should have been in the fight.
Hal
02-25-2008, 09:06 AM
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02-27-2008, 09:36 PM
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I can tell you I was brought up in the Army to be a leader. It's my natural personality. I've been in combat with multiple branches of the military and have seen good and bad from all branches. Heck, I even wear a 1 Marine patch on the right, some Marines hate it others don't. My standards are high because others set their's high for me. Sometimes it was hard, but at the end of the day I knew the reason for this discipline. I was never belittled in front of others and I wanted to achieve more because of this. One thing I always tell my troops- you can learn as much from a bad leader as a good leader. If you don't like something, it's up to you to raise the standard and make it better. Not to cry about it. Combat will grow you up real fast and really, what is our primary function in whatever branch? War. Lead. Follow. Or get the **** out of the way.
02-28-2008, 05:16 AM
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Spot on, brother ...... spot on !! That's why BEING the example 24/7 is so important.
Cheers,
PISTOL
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