Need HELP/Advise on home/farm electrical issue
01-23-2006, 07:39 PM
#46
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I suggested to "Them"today why didn't they just use one of those new type check ball plastic waterers that dosen't freeze,requires no power and dosen't hold 150 gallons to grow alge in.
01-23-2006, 07:39 PM
#47
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stray voltage can be a real SOB.
to answer you question about the fence charger, yes it can kill. i have on more than one occasion killed deer with a fence charger.
i'm not sure if the deer died from exhaustion from being tangled in fence wire while being shocked all night or if the repetitive pulse actually did the killing?
in my instace, I had less than 1/4 mile of wire connected to a 100 mile charger. the "mile" description of the charger is only a comparison of how much wire the unit is supposed to be able to energize. different manufactures play games with the "miles" to fool customers who are price shopping.
the real measurment to look for is the joule rating.
fencers pulse a very high voltage, very low amperage. very similar to a spark plug wire. could a spark plug wire kill you if you held it in one hand bare foot in mud? i don't want to be the one to find out.
very sorry about your horse...
to answer you question about the fence charger, yes it can kill. i have on more than one occasion killed deer with a fence charger.
i'm not sure if the deer died from exhaustion from being tangled in fence wire while being shocked all night or if the repetitive pulse actually did the killing?
in my instace, I had less than 1/4 mile of wire connected to a 100 mile charger. the "mile" description of the charger is only a comparison of how much wire the unit is supposed to be able to energize. different manufactures play games with the "miles" to fool customers who are price shopping.
the real measurment to look for is the joule rating.
fencers pulse a very high voltage, very low amperage. very similar to a spark plug wire. could a spark plug wire kill you if you held it in one hand bare foot in mud? i don't want to be the one to find out.
very sorry about your horse...
01-23-2006, 08:31 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by hotdram
A Megger is probably what they used.
Measures isolation and breakdown resistance.
~Rob
Measures isolation and breakdown resistance.
~Rob
Randy
01-24-2006, 02:17 AM
#49
DTR's Night Watchman & Poet Laureate
Originally Posted by Hounddog
I suggested to "Them"today why didn't they just use one of those new type check ball plastic waterers that dosen't freeze,requires no power and dosen't hold 150 gallons to grow alge in.
It has been better about not freezing, but when it gets aroudn 10*f it starts getting askim of ice, wehn it was getting to -5* it was freezing, so I had to run a line to it and put a bird-bath de-icer in teh main tank.
Over-all though I have to say i want ot put one in each of the other pens now, much more convienient than teh big tanks.
01-24-2006, 03:15 AM
#50
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10 degrees is REAL rare here.Its happened but rare.Now mid teens to mid 20s can happend and for a few days.Not this winter yet.Been a warm winter so far.
01-24-2006, 04:57 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by TIMMY22
stray voltage can be a real SOB.
to answer you question about the fence charger, yes it can kill. i have on more than one occasion killed deer with a fence charger.
i'm not sure if the deer died from exhaustion from being tangled in fence wire while being shocked all night or if the repetitive pulse actually did the killing?
in my instace, I had less than 1/4 mile of wire connected to a 100 mile charger. the "mile" description of the charger is only a comparison of how much wire the unit is supposed to be able to energize. different manufactures play games with the "miles" to fool customers who are price shopping.
the real measurment to look for is the joule rating.
fencers pulse a very high voltage, very low amperage. very similar to a spark plug wire. could a spark plug wire kill you if you held it in one hand bare foot in mud? i don't want to be the one to find out.
very sorry about your horse...
to answer you question about the fence charger, yes it can kill. i have on more than one occasion killed deer with a fence charger.
i'm not sure if the deer died from exhaustion from being tangled in fence wire while being shocked all night or if the repetitive pulse actually did the killing?
in my instace, I had less than 1/4 mile of wire connected to a 100 mile charger. the "mile" description of the charger is only a comparison of how much wire the unit is supposed to be able to energize. different manufactures play games with the "miles" to fool customers who are price shopping.
the real measurment to look for is the joule rating.
fencers pulse a very high voltage, very low amperage. very similar to a spark plug wire. could a spark plug wire kill you if you held it in one hand bare foot in mud? i don't want to be the one to find out.
very sorry about your horse...
That is what I was taught and Coast Guard electronics tech school. I have found a high respect for electricity since then. If any tech get shocked he is supposed to go to the clinic/hospital and get an EKG done to make sure his heart is still in good order.
01-24-2006, 05:19 AM
#52
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Hound, do you have a water line run to the area where you want to place the tank?
If so, get tehm to spring for one of the larger Ritchie style waterers. You'll love it........
i like the Ritchie 'cause the water isnt covered, the horse doesnt have to "learn" to drink from it, pushing anything out of the way with his nose.
Otherwise,If 10* is rare, then I would dig a 8" 'posthole" about 8 foot deep under where you are going to set the tank, and fill it full of gravel. Set the tank over it.
This is an old trick that they use a lot in the big pastures up in Montana and places where there is no chance of using a heater. I have been told that a 12' hole lets up enough geo-thermal heat to keep a 10 foot circular stock tank clear in the Montana winters. I heard that from a vet at K-State BTW.....
If so, get tehm to spring for one of the larger Ritchie style waterers. You'll love it........
i like the Ritchie 'cause the water isnt covered, the horse doesnt have to "learn" to drink from it, pushing anything out of the way with his nose.
Otherwise,If 10* is rare, then I would dig a 8" 'posthole" about 8 foot deep under where you are going to set the tank, and fill it full of gravel. Set the tank over it.
This is an old trick that they use a lot in the big pastures up in Montana and places where there is no chance of using a heater. I have been told that a 12' hole lets up enough geo-thermal heat to keep a 10 foot circular stock tank clear in the Montana winters. I heard that from a vet at K-State BTW.....
01-24-2006, 05:31 AM
#53
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Yes.Power and water was run to the tank at same time. The float deicer manufacture told me a quick check on unit is to put it in a freezer for 20 minutes and then plug it in a known good GFIC and if its bad it should blow circuit almost instanly? Said its the basic test they do when ones returned with a problem etc.
01-24-2006, 05:33 AM
#54
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Thats interesting... I guess it "surges" the heater???
I have a couple of the drain-plug heaters from API and tehy only last about a year.
I would try that Montana deicer if it doesnt get all that cold that often....
I have a couple of the drain-plug heaters from API and tehy only last about a year.
I would try that Montana deicer if it doesnt get all that cold that often....
01-24-2006, 11:04 PM
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Hounddog,
If the electricains working at your pasture will help you,
Another way to test the heater is to connect a megger to the heater connections and to the outside case of the heater and test it. It should read a high resistance, in the megaohms. Just a thought. It might show a leakage.
Sounds like everyone is trying to assist you with getting to the bottom of the situation and getting it fixed. That is good thing. They are probably scared out of their wits. If a person had gotten into it with the right conditions, it would have messed up everyones day.
Someone asked earlier in this thread about power to kill a person, as stated the current level is what disrupts the heart rate (it does not take much), the voltage is what causes your body to reflex either away from the source or it locks you to it. Standard house hold voltage is 120/240, and it is the most common and kills the most people every year. Surviving a shock is combination of many things, voltage, current, and path of current. If it passes through the trunk of the body chances of not surviving increase. Seek treatment.
If the electricains working at your pasture will help you,
Another way to test the heater is to connect a megger to the heater connections and to the outside case of the heater and test it. It should read a high resistance, in the megaohms. Just a thought. It might show a leakage.
Sounds like everyone is trying to assist you with getting to the bottom of the situation and getting it fixed. That is good thing. They are probably scared out of their wits. If a person had gotten into it with the right conditions, it would have messed up everyones day.
Someone asked earlier in this thread about power to kill a person, as stated the current level is what disrupts the heart rate (it does not take much), the voltage is what causes your body to reflex either away from the source or it locks you to it. Standard house hold voltage is 120/240, and it is the most common and kills the most people every year. Surviving a shock is combination of many things, voltage, current, and path of current. If it passes through the trunk of the body chances of not surviving increase. Seek treatment.
01-24-2006, 11:11 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by electrifried
Thinking "out of the box"
To put a rubbermaid type stock tank on the same playing field as a steel one, how about a ground rod driven near the tank attached to another rod laying at the bottom of the tank with a good sized piece of ground wire. That should bleed any leakage that a GFCI would not trip at and speed up the trip process if the leakage is great enough to trip. By code this rod should be bonded to the grounding source at the incomming service.
Any thoughts?
To put a rubbermaid type stock tank on the same playing field as a steel one, how about a ground rod driven near the tank attached to another rod laying at the bottom of the tank with a good sized piece of ground wire. That should bleed any leakage that a GFCI would not trip at and speed up the trip process if the leakage is great enough to trip. By code this rod should be bonded to the grounding source at the incomming service.
Any thoughts?
01-24-2006, 11:33 PM
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Man this post had me down all weekend! think about this guys i got it figured out about the horse the reason you dont die when you stick your hands in the water is
1 the current is not passing your brain
2 when it bites you it scares you you kinda freeze up but whats the first thing you do when your scared suddenly deep breath
lets picture it this way now in stead of your hand its your head...under water and now what you take deep breath+brain+kinda freezing up tryin to get loose...its a bad deal
my suggestion get metal tank!!
if no metal tank is to be had get a fiberglass tank ...something w/ a stong flat side wall and get a basin heater that you can screw into a stainless myers hub in 12 years have not seen one shorted out yet ! I use them all the time on cooling towers the fitting usually rust out before the heater dies
1 the current is not passing your brain
2 when it bites you it scares you you kinda freeze up but whats the first thing you do when your scared suddenly deep breath
lets picture it this way now in stead of your hand its your head...under water and now what you take deep breath+brain+kinda freezing up tryin to get loose...its a bad deal
my suggestion get metal tank!!
if no metal tank is to be had get a fiberglass tank ...something w/ a stong flat side wall and get a basin heater that you can screw into a stainless myers hub in 12 years have not seen one shorted out yet ! I use them all the time on cooling towers the fitting usually rust out before the heater dies
01-24-2006, 11:40 PM
#59
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Plastic tanks are the MOST commonly carried and used.Sold in all sizes and used in pastures,rangeland etc.The deicer had a guard for the sole pupose of being used in them.The deicer makes no statement of usage in metal or plastic etc.
01-25-2006, 12:45 AM
#60
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Metal tanks have their own slew of problems... in an open pasture they make great lightening rods, have issues with bacterial and algae growth, rust, and calcium oxide build-ups, and on and on..... thats why the plastic tanks are becoming more and more the standard.