My fellow American Hypocrites...
04-29-2005 | 08:38 PM
#46
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,759
Likes: 3
From: Central Texas
Originally posted by Hannibal
Yet we explode at the idea of paying our fire fighters a decent wage through only sightly higher taxes and providing the man power to do the job safely. Who were the heros after the Saudis who trained in Afghanistan and Venice Florida knocked out the WTC, Pentagon and a field in Penn.? We pay our EMT's, fire fighters, cops and military a tiny fraction of what we pay our executive geeks and loudmouth radio "personalities".
Yet we explode at the idea of paying our fire fighters a decent wage through only sightly higher taxes and providing the man power to do the job safely. Who were the heros after the Saudis who trained in Afghanistan and Venice Florida knocked out the WTC, Pentagon and a field in Penn.? We pay our EMT's, fire fighters, cops and military a tiny fraction of what we pay our executive geeks and loudmouth radio "personalities".
04-29-2005 | 08:49 PM
#47
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,759
Likes: 3
From: Central Texas
Originally posted by t-7 firefighter
In a perfect world I think that the 2 in 2 out rule would be in effect. 2 in 2 out is kind of a misnomer. If we have 10 inside then in a perfect world we would need 10 outside the structure. We wish we could do it. What we have set up right now is a rapid intervention team and a rapid response team. The RIT team is set up at the front of the structure with an uncharged hand line, medical supplies, and a minimum of 2 people. No matter how many people we have inside the structure there are (as of right now) only 2 personnel outside waiting to rescue us if something happens. A rapid response team is set up at the closest unused hydrant just in case of loss of water pressure or if needed, more water.
To answer your question about the 5 people on the truck. We have only 4 assigned to our truck but I understand you question. Wouldn’t you rather all 4 of us come into the structure and look for trapped victims rather then only 2 of us searching and 2 standing in the front yard? 4 personnel searching are going to be more efficient than only 2. Being assigned to a Truck CO. is one of the most dangerous jobs in the fire service. The only thing we take in with us to search for you is a hand light and a thermal imaging camera. We have no water. I would love to have someone out in the yard standing there just in case I need rescued. But under this (Bush's) administration, it’s not going to happen.
Now in this (Bush's) administrations defense. The thermal imaging cameras that I mentioned earlier were paid for by a grant from FEMA ($18,000 a piece). We have 2 of them on our truck (and 2 on all 8 of our truck COs. for that matter) and they are probably the best thing to happen to the fire service in the last 100 years. You better hope and pray that your fire dept has one. They are unbelievable!
Britt
In a perfect world I think that the 2 in 2 out rule would be in effect. 2 in 2 out is kind of a misnomer. If we have 10 inside then in a perfect world we would need 10 outside the structure. We wish we could do it. What we have set up right now is a rapid intervention team and a rapid response team. The RIT team is set up at the front of the structure with an uncharged hand line, medical supplies, and a minimum of 2 people. No matter how many people we have inside the structure there are (as of right now) only 2 personnel outside waiting to rescue us if something happens. A rapid response team is set up at the closest unused hydrant just in case of loss of water pressure or if needed, more water.
To answer your question about the 5 people on the truck. We have only 4 assigned to our truck but I understand you question. Wouldn’t you rather all 4 of us come into the structure and look for trapped victims rather then only 2 of us searching and 2 standing in the front yard? 4 personnel searching are going to be more efficient than only 2. Being assigned to a Truck CO. is one of the most dangerous jobs in the fire service. The only thing we take in with us to search for you is a hand light and a thermal imaging camera. We have no water. I would love to have someone out in the yard standing there just in case I need rescued. But under this (Bush's) administration, it’s not going to happen.
Now in this (Bush's) administrations defense. The thermal imaging cameras that I mentioned earlier were paid for by a grant from FEMA ($18,000 a piece). We have 2 of them on our truck (and 2 on all 8 of our truck COs. for that matter) and they are probably the best thing to happen to the fire service in the last 100 years. You better hope and pray that your fire dept has one. They are unbelievable!
Britt
My father is on the "fire board" (that may not be the correct terminology) for the county in which he resides. He was also either a paid or volunteer fireman/paramedic for most of my life (recently retired as a Captain). Being on the board for the county, he helps to decide which departments in the county get what. As I understand it, most of the grants that they receive for equipment/training/etc. come from the state....not the federal government.
Now...I'll confess that I don't know much about this "2 in 2 out" thing that you're claiming Bush rejected, but I still don't think that the federal government dictates how many men go in and how many men wait outside "just in case". That, to me, should be established by each fire department (or perhaps each fire district).
By the way....how did we manage to get off topic??
04-29-2005 | 08:51 PM
#48
Admin Team Leader
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,514
Likes: 207
I don't care about your political beliefs, in fact I kind of enjoy reading all the whining going on in here, But if I have to edit any more posts due to language issues, I will shut it down and deal with the violators as necessary.
My tire went flat on my ATV trailer, that durn Bush must be the cause of it 
My tire went flat on my ATV trailer, that durn Bush must be the cause of it
04-29-2005 | 08:53 PM
#49
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,759
Likes: 3
From: Central Texas
Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
Now let me get this straight. The Police and Fire departments are not paid enough, and that is Bushes fault. The Chief cannot determine that four people stay outside for a backup, and that is Bushes fault. Walmart employees are paid too little and don't get benefits, and I guess that is Bushes fault. The Honda employees ae not paid enough they say. No complaints out of Mercedes that I have heard. The teachers and professors do not get paid enough because Bush is holding back education. My neice is a postal management person, is complaining constantly about Bush and his policies keeping the post office from making more money. Of course the illegal immigrents are paid far too little because the government will not enforce more equal compensation. Fuel.... ahhhh I won't even go there. Except to say that the stores only make a couple of cents on a gallon, even though the price may be inflated 12 or 15 cents over the competition getting it from the same pipeline.
I just don't know how this country can make it until another left wing, welfare loving, tax raising, do nothing President makes it into the big office with promases of lowering prices and raising wages.... And when he does the US will put its tail between its legs (again) and leave Iraq so that we can say we lost another war. They will make us safe by getting rid of all those guns. That way we can be safe like on other threads, California, New York, and Washington D.C.
I have to agree with one thing. America is spoiled rotten. When I was young tools cost ten times as much, if you had a good three year old car you were doing real good. A portable radio cost $59.95 which is about the same as $250 or $300 today. The batteries cost $4.50 for the B battery and less for the D batteries. That is about $20 bucks for four and a half hours use. Records cost 98 cents, about five bucks today for one song. If you did not have the money in your pocket, you did not buy. And all this on $40 to $80 dollars a week if you had a good job. I supported two kids on $38 dollars a week and drove 40 miles to get there for work. It is unbelieveable the standard of living that the "poor" live today.
Thing is that we did not feel poor. We just did not have what we did not have. Even if I had to pour a gallon of hot water over the water pump so the fan would turn after work to drive home. Who had $7.00 for two gallons of antifreeze? that is about the same price as today, isn't it? Carried my lunch in, potted meat sandwiches and coffee. It was not President Kennedy's fault, we just had not made it where we wanted yet. I grew up with people that went through the depression, and being told "finish you supper Billy, there are children starving in Europe" I think the Bible says it well, there will always be poor and beggers, there will always be rich also. Personally I am happy to not be in either group. Bet ya, if we go through another depression, I won't starve either. We are blessed to live in the greatest country that God ever created, guess that makes me a hippocrite. But I have two vehicles in the driveway, food on the table, able to give and help my five kids, house is paid for. I work my butt off. I have it good, I think, the neighbors have it a lot better.... so? That is not Bushes fault is it?
Now let me get this straight. The Police and Fire departments are not paid enough, and that is Bushes fault. The Chief cannot determine that four people stay outside for a backup, and that is Bushes fault. Walmart employees are paid too little and don't get benefits, and I guess that is Bushes fault. The Honda employees ae not paid enough they say. No complaints out of Mercedes that I have heard. The teachers and professors do not get paid enough because Bush is holding back education. My neice is a postal management person, is complaining constantly about Bush and his policies keeping the post office from making more money. Of course the illegal immigrents are paid far too little because the government will not enforce more equal compensation. Fuel.... ahhhh I won't even go there. Except to say that the stores only make a couple of cents on a gallon, even though the price may be inflated 12 or 15 cents over the competition getting it from the same pipeline.
I just don't know how this country can make it until another left wing, welfare loving, tax raising, do nothing President makes it into the big office with promases of lowering prices and raising wages.... And when he does the US will put its tail between its legs (again) and leave Iraq so that we can say we lost another war. They will make us safe by getting rid of all those guns. That way we can be safe like on other threads, California, New York, and Washington D.C.
I have to agree with one thing. America is spoiled rotten. When I was young tools cost ten times as much, if you had a good three year old car you were doing real good. A portable radio cost $59.95 which is about the same as $250 or $300 today. The batteries cost $4.50 for the B battery and less for the D batteries. That is about $20 bucks for four and a half hours use. Records cost 98 cents, about five bucks today for one song. If you did not have the money in your pocket, you did not buy. And all this on $40 to $80 dollars a week if you had a good job. I supported two kids on $38 dollars a week and drove 40 miles to get there for work. It is unbelieveable the standard of living that the "poor" live today.
Thing is that we did not feel poor. We just did not have what we did not have. Even if I had to pour a gallon of hot water over the water pump so the fan would turn after work to drive home. Who had $7.00 for two gallons of antifreeze? that is about the same price as today, isn't it? Carried my lunch in, potted meat sandwiches and coffee. It was not President Kennedy's fault, we just had not made it where we wanted yet. I grew up with people that went through the depression, and being told "finish you supper Billy, there are children starving in Europe" I think the Bible says it well, there will always be poor and beggers, there will always be rich also. Personally I am happy to not be in either group. Bet ya, if we go through another depression, I won't starve either. We are blessed to live in the greatest country that God ever created, guess that makes me a hippocrite. But I have two vehicles in the driveway, food on the table, able to give and help my five kids, house is paid for. I work my butt off. I have it good, I think, the neighbors have it a lot better.... so? That is not Bushes fault is it?
04-29-2005 | 08:58 PM
#51
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,759
Likes: 3
From: Central Texas
Originally posted by Lary Ellis (Top)
I don't care about your political beliefs, in fact I kind of enjoy reading all the whining going on in here, But if I have to edit any more posts due to language issues, I will shut it down and deal with the violators as necessary.
My tire went flat on my ATV trailer, that durn Bush must be the cause of it
I don't care about your political beliefs, in fact I kind of enjoy reading all the whining going on in here, But if I have to edit any more posts due to language issues, I will shut it down and deal with the violators as necessary.
My tire went flat on my ATV trailer, that durn Bush must be the cause of it
04-30-2005 | 02:34 AM
#53
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
From: The 951-Flatbill center of the universe
Originally posted by t-7 firefighter
HOLY Edit .... i agree with Hoss on something
I buy what I want when I want. Whether it comes from Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, Home Depot, Lowe’s, Auto Zone, or wherever. If it happens to be from China, Taiwan, Indochina, or India so be it. We all do it. It is nearly impossible to buy only “American made”. In a perfect world that is what I would do. Hell my truck was made in Mexico. That sure didn’t stop me from buying it. I buy the best quality I can afford. And yes, as most of you know, I am a PROUD union member. I completely recommend buying American made. But the fact remains it is sometimes impossible to do just that.
While I understand some of you dislike unions, in certain circumstances they are a necessity. The IAFF (the union I belong to) protects us from unfair working conditions, makes sure that our family is taken care of in the event of our death, and secures our salary. The IAFF also lobbies for safe working conditions (as safe as we can get in our line of work). What I mean by this is making the fire ground as safe as possible. The IAFF has lobbied for a nation wide 2 in 2 out rule (which Dumb Edit Bush has Vetoed), which would make the fire ground safer. The 2 in 2 out rule basically says that for every firefighter inside a structure there will be as many firefighters outside the structure. They will be there to come and pull you out in case something goes wrong. I won’t lie, there have been a few times where I didn’t think I was coming home. It is nice knowing that there is someone out there looking out for me. A fellow brother has pulled me out of a situation that was very bad and I have done the same. But your president has said that it is not necessary. You would think that after 9/11 things would change just a little but I can assure you they have not. Bush showed up at the World Trade Center right after 9/11 and pledged his support for homeland security and fire and police and then Vetoed one of the most important pieces of legislation for the fire service. As far as I’m concerned he is a disgrace. (smiling waiting on Ramlovingvet)
Oh yeah… HOHN we can complain as much as we want about gas prices. I drive an 8500lb truck. SO WHAT!!!! You drive one that is about the same as mine. I bet you don’t like the fuel prices any more than I do. Mine gets 16 MPG in the city and that’s pretty good. But I can still complain about the price of diesel if I want to. Especially if I was paying $.40 per gallon less than regular unleaded just a little over a year ago. I mean Hell…. we invaded Iraq didn’t we? That should account for something.
Britt
HOLY Edit .... i agree with Hoss on something
I buy what I want when I want. Whether it comes from Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, Home Depot, Lowe’s, Auto Zone, or wherever. If it happens to be from China, Taiwan, Indochina, or India so be it. We all do it. It is nearly impossible to buy only “American made”. In a perfect world that is what I would do. Hell my truck was made in Mexico. That sure didn’t stop me from buying it. I buy the best quality I can afford. And yes, as most of you know, I am a PROUD union member. I completely recommend buying American made. But the fact remains it is sometimes impossible to do just that.
While I understand some of you dislike unions, in certain circumstances they are a necessity. The IAFF (the union I belong to) protects us from unfair working conditions, makes sure that our family is taken care of in the event of our death, and secures our salary. The IAFF also lobbies for safe working conditions (as safe as we can get in our line of work). What I mean by this is making the fire ground as safe as possible. The IAFF has lobbied for a nation wide 2 in 2 out rule (which Dumb Edit Bush has Vetoed), which would make the fire ground safer. The 2 in 2 out rule basically says that for every firefighter inside a structure there will be as many firefighters outside the structure. They will be there to come and pull you out in case something goes wrong. I won’t lie, there have been a few times where I didn’t think I was coming home. It is nice knowing that there is someone out there looking out for me. A fellow brother has pulled me out of a situation that was very bad and I have done the same. But your president has said that it is not necessary. You would think that after 9/11 things would change just a little but I can assure you they have not. Bush showed up at the World Trade Center right after 9/11 and pledged his support for homeland security and fire and police and then Vetoed one of the most important pieces of legislation for the fire service. As far as I’m concerned he is a disgrace. (smiling waiting on Ramlovingvet)
Oh yeah… HOHN we can complain as much as we want about gas prices. I drive an 8500lb truck. SO WHAT!!!! You drive one that is about the same as mine. I bet you don’t like the fuel prices any more than I do. Mine gets 16 MPG in the city and that’s pretty good. But I can still complain about the price of diesel if I want to. Especially if I was paying $.40 per gallon less than regular unleaded just a little over a year ago. I mean Hell…. we invaded Iraq didn’t we? That should account for something.
Britt
Go back and look at where the 2 in 2 out rule came from. That's an OSHA standard, promulgated by a board consisting or safety professionals, legislators and the fire service. They all get together and decide the language and publish it in a Notice of Proposed Final Rule Making. It sits for a few months until everybody has had a chance to review and comment, then it is entered into the Federal Register as an OSHA standard. Bush can't "veto" it.
While it can be adopted as a department standard, it is still an OSHA standard and departments can be cited for failure to comply. Besides, We both know all bets are off if there is a potential for people left in a structure. No victims... as soon as I hear sirens coming I go interior. Close enough.
Wasn't that long ago we ran two man engine companies, engineer or captain and a firefighter. Next in engine might have been 10 minutes away. We had two truck companes in the second largest county in California, run by the state. Every fire was John Wayne time, operator got out, set the pump and both guys went to work. Now, 6 years later, we run two engines and a truck out of our station, we're 3/0 staffed on the engine and 4/0 staffed on the truck. We still don't have a thermal imaging camera...department is growing too fast. Spending all the money on new stations, new equipment, and new firefighters. Some of our station are old forestry stations that were built in the 20's/30's. These are being replaced.
We are set up with top of the line hydraulic tools on engines and trucks, and our rope rescue stuff is nice. We're not hurting for much, but the TI cam is a big chunk of money. We're one of the fastest growing counties in CA, 93 stations now, so the money gets spent faster than it comes in.
As far as paying firefighters more money....well, we'd all like to make more. Not too hard to break 100K/year in CA with a little overtime. Lots of guys I know that work for the big departments like LA County/LA City that have boats and houses at the river, dirtbikes, buggies, etc. My old engineer went to work for LA County, and they asked him to start working OT as soon as he got out of the tower. Most of them are pulling their toys wth 3/4 or 1 ton diesels. Ain't none of us out here hurtin' for money.....
04-30-2005 | 03:05 AM
#54
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,199
Likes: 1
From: Branchville, Alabama
What larger city fire departments forget is that most of "fly over" america is staffed by volunteer firefighters. I did it for 22 years here in Alabama. Alabama is not an OSHA state but has to loosly conform to IAFF standards. If such a regulation is passed and strictly enforced, houses in the country will burn. There are not that many people to do a 50/50. Here generally the engineer stays with the truck, and as soon as there a two or three available, they go in. The incident commander will call neighboring departments as necessary to achieve the necessary manpower. Our departments are funded locally and county with a grant now and then to purchase equipment. Generally the funding is from local sources. In 1980 our department as were otheres were almost a joke with the equipment we had to work with, now two trucks running 5 inch hose and well equipped. This money is all generated locally. The larger departments get the benefit of grants, rarely the smaller departments. Our town of 800 purchased the new truck on its own financing in 1999. Less than $10,000 have ever come from federal grants. Grants have had a part in police manpower. The county dispatch system was federally funded.
04-30-2005 | 08:03 AM
#56
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
From: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Originally posted by herb
i know better but i'm out of frito's.
if these unions would demand emoloyees put as much into their jobs as they demand companies give their employees we would have a good deal of our countries problems solved.
why should a person hired off the street make as much as a guy who has been on the job foer 20 years.
why should a person who does not do his job be protected by the unions?
why should a person who busts his a-- on the job be paid the same as a guy who does as little as possable in his 8 hours.
this crap is a lot of why our production jobs are being sent to other countries.
take the tv's away from the kids ---reinstate the draft---let the teachers and principals start wacking their bottoms WHEN they need it and teach these kids THEY are responsable for their actions and this country would do an about face.
i know better but i'm out of frito's.
if these unions would demand emoloyees put as much into their jobs as they demand companies give their employees we would have a good deal of our countries problems solved.
why should a person hired off the street make as much as a guy who has been on the job foer 20 years.
why should a person who does not do his job be protected by the unions?
why should a person who busts his a-- on the job be paid the same as a guy who does as little as possable in his 8 hours.
this crap is a lot of why our production jobs are being sent to other countries.
take the tv's away from the kids ---reinstate the draft---let the teachers and principals start wacking their bottoms WHEN they need it and teach these kids THEY are responsable for their actions and this country would do an about face.
WOW!!!!
I agree with Herb...this post is certainly "mixing things up a bit" now isn't it!!
Chris
04-30-2005 | 08:28 AM
#57
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,988
Likes: 7
From: Nebraska
Originally posted by Lary Ellis (Top)
My tire went flat on my ATV trailer, that durn Bush must be the cause of it
My tire went flat on my ATV trailer, that durn Bush must be the cause of it
04-30-2005 | 07:27 PM
#59
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
From: west central Florida
Originally posted by Lary Ellis (Top)
I don't care about your political beliefs, in fact I kind of enjoy reading all the whining going on in here, But if I have to edit any more posts due to language issues, I will shut it down and deal with the violators as necessary.
My tire went flat on my ATV trailer, that durn Bush must be the cause of it
I don't care about your political beliefs, in fact I kind of enjoy reading all the whining going on in here, But if I have to edit any more posts due to language issues, I will shut it down and deal with the violators as necessary.
My tire went flat on my ATV trailer, that durn Bush must be the cause of it
Be ware you insidious users of foul French verbage! Me thinks he's full up of it and you will be pumulled about the head and body!
05-01-2005 | 08:56 AM
#60
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
From: west central Florida
Originally posted by herb
i know better but i'm out of frito's.
if these unions would demand emoloyees put as much into their jobs as they demand companies give their employees we would have a good deal of our countries problems solved.
why should a person hired off the street make as much as a guy who has been on the job foer 20 years.
why should a person who does not do his job be protected by the unions?
why should a person who busts his a-- on the job be paid the same as a guy who does as little as possable in his 8 hours.
this crap is a lot of why our production jobs are being sent to other countries.
take the tv's away from the kids ---reinstate the draft---let the teachers and principals start wacking their bottoms WHEN they need it and teach these kids THEY are responsable for their actions and this country would do an about face.
i know better but i'm out of frito's.
if these unions would demand emoloyees put as much into their jobs as they demand companies give their employees we would have a good deal of our countries problems solved.
why should a person hired off the street make as much as a guy who has been on the job foer 20 years.
why should a person who does not do his job be protected by the unions?
why should a person who busts his a-- on the job be paid the same as a guy who does as little as possable in his 8 hours.
this crap is a lot of why our production jobs are being sent to other countries.
take the tv's away from the kids ---reinstate the draft---let the teachers and principals start wacking their bottoms WHEN they need it and teach these kids THEY are responsable for their actions and this country would do an about face.
Since when is a person hired off the streets making the same scale as a person who's been in the trade 20 years? Our apprentices start at 50%. Probation is 6 months. If they don't pull their weight, they're out.
A person in our union who doesn't do his job is not protected by our union. When one member doesn't do his job, the rest of us have to do it for him. That doesn't fly. WE are the union, not a seperate entity. The company lets him go and we bid him farewell.
A person who busts his ax on the job in our union gets promoted to higher levels and eventually into management if he desires. Those who do their job as expected keep their job. Those who don't, don't.
Our jobs are being sent to other countries because there is more corporate profit to be made with $1-$4 an hour labor. That has nothing to do with unions. Nobody in this country wants to work for that amount of pay union or not. Do the math. It wouldn't work here. In some third world country, maybe you can live on $1 an hour. On the other hand, Toyota Tacomas are built here using UAW labor. I guess they see the benefits. And top management is still making the big bucks. Maybe the big three could learn from Toyota.
I agree with your last rant 100%. But that all ended in 1972. The paddles got put away, no more telling the kids NO, and no more discipline in the classroom. Now there's no more discipline at home. The last time my youngest daughter got the belt, I told her to go ahead and call the police. She could go live in state custody and I'll go to the greybar hotel. She decided that wasn't a good idea and straightened up some. And I was serious about it.
Have you heard on the news about the little girl put in handcuffs at a local school here in St. Pete? The teachers and cops were at a loss what to do. A good ax whipping would have straightened her right out. What a farce.