TX Ram

He's an idiot, as are the Ditsy chicks. It's sad that people get all worked up over stuff like this but forget about it in a few weeks (not referring to anyone here, just the public in general). I, personally, will never buy another DC album, concert ticket, etc. They have every right in the world to speak out against the government, etc but I also have the right to not support them. Personally I just wish everyone that hates this country so much would just stay the heck out and not make millions of money off of it.

Hoss

[quote author=LonCray link=board=10;threadid=19164;start=15#msg180147 date=1062621123]
I'm curious, what ended up being the consequences to the Dixie Chicks for their comments? As I understood it, after a week their last album was back to being number one on the Country charts, and they got more publicity than they ever could have hoped for. I don't think the consequences of Natalie Maine's comments have been quite what the conservatives among us hoped for. [/quote]

Can't speak for the rest of the country, but they lost me for a fan. I'm sure there are others like me. :

cumminsho2500

id like to beat this guy ,i had no clue he said this....they shouldnt show any of his movies in this country

AlpineRAM

[quote author=cumminsho2500 link=board=10;threadid=19164;start=30#msg180553 date=1062700635]
id like to beat this guy ,i had no clue he said this....they shouldnt show any of his movies in this country
[/quote]

Well I don't think you are right here. First of all I do understand your "want to beat" as proverbial (hopefully) but do you really want to endorse censorship? Show only films made by, and under the sole participation of, "good patriots" ???
IMHO this would be a leap away from the constitution of the USA. I'd say that you are entitled to not watch his films, to discuss his publicly voiced opinion and to suggest to stop supporting him by boycotting his movies. BUT do not endorse censorship and say that you are a patriot in the USA as long as you disagree with a fundamental part of the constitution. Feel free to make a democratic effort to have it changed. Ask people to vote for the right to free speech to be withdrawn.

AlpineRAM

(wearing asbestos underwear now)

Commatoze

Well, now he's back-peddling.

Click Here

Too late, Sport!

NWDave

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=10;threadid=19164;start=30#msg180639 date=1062713489]
[quote author=cumminsho2500 link=board=10;threadid=19164;start=30#msg180553 date=1062700635]
id like to beat this guy ,i had no clue he said this....they shouldnt show any of his movies in this country
[/quote]

Well I don't think you are right here. First of all I do understand your "want to beat" as proverbial (hopefully) but do you really want to endorse censorship? Show only films made by, and under the sole participation of, "good patriots" ???
IMHO this would be a leap away from the constitution of the USA. I'd say that you are entitled to not watch his films, to discuss his publicly voiced opinion and to suggest to stop supporting him by boycotting his movies. BUT do not endorse censorship and say that you are a patriot in the USA as long as you disagree with a fundamental part of the constitution. Feel free to make a democratic effort to have it changed. Ask people to vote for the right to free speech to be withdrawn.

AlpineRAM

(wearing asbestos underwear now)
[/quote]

But that's the big misunderstanding. Free speech is guaranteed but it also comes with responsibility. It's been long held in law that free speech does not give you the right to stand up in a theater and yell, FIRE! when none exists. You've obviously never lived for any length of time in America. We are a very diverse lot but what you miss out on is what draws us together. You speak from outside our culture and way of life. I lived in Germany for 3 years and wouldn't even pretend to think I knew how Germans think, believe or feel. It is easy to observe at a distance what you perceive to be "US".

Why do we "rail" at people like the Dixie Chicks and Johnny Depp for their pontifications? I take it as a personal affront that some who have benefited from our way of life, think that they are the ones to tell us how to believe. They mistakenly think that their glorious life as entertainers elevate them to Statesmen and policy makers.

Our American way of life is made up of many people from all over the world. They brought to America their way of life from the "old country", many fleeing from religious persecution, many just wanting a better way of life. My family origins are from Wales and Scotland. My wife's origins are Polish and German. But my children are not citizens of Wales/Scotland/Poland or Germany, they are Americans!!! Yes, I know, we have a few who deny their Americanism and want to be identified by their heritage so we have African Americans, Mexican Americans, or some other groups but then, that is their right to maintain such diversity. We all live in glass houses. America is a very multi-faceted culture. We won't even talk about regional differences, but just to say, don't expect the same reactions from a Texan, a Californian or a New Yorker. All that being said, we do react in similar ways when we're insulted, slapped in the face or are ATTACKED. Just remember, when you say those silly Americans, you could actually be referring to one of your ancestral neighbors from Austria who immigrated to America many years ago and has melded his way of thinking into the Melting Pot of our culture. Matter of fact, one of yours is running for the Governorship of California and more power to him. By the way, I found just as much racism (not by color, although there was alot of that, but by country) while living in Germany. Have they ever gotten over the hatred for Turks, who come up to take over the low paying jobs, just so they could have a better life? Sound familiar? What party is it in Germany that is anti everything that is not german? People, products, culture, everything.

Perhaps, as some would have you believe, it would be better if America retreated to her national boundaries, brought back all our military, foreign aid, missionaries, everything and became an isolationist nation. If a natural catastrophe occurred, well, just tough luck. Fix it yourself. You got an uprising of a dictator slaughtering thousands upon thousands of innocent people? Oh well, you probably deserved it anyway. You let the problem happen and you didn't stop your neighbor states from helping the dictator strengthening his position. As long as he stays away from us, we won't worry about him.

Fortunately, we aren't that way. For that, we get called meddlesome, intrusive, and insulted because we just don't understand. So many countries have been rescued from whatever befell them by the individual and congregate efforts of many Americans, yet we get insulted at every turn. And you wonder why we react the way we do. How many countries have repaid their war debt to the US for WWII? Maybe many of us are just getting tired of being treated as stepchildren of the world. And heaven forbid, one of our "own" should jump up and run off at the mouth in a foreign land, safe and secure from the crowds of their peers.

I'm not saying we're perfect, what society is? But I for one am darn tired of being kicked in the hinney because we tried to help and someone else thought we shouldn't. Step back, try to imagine what the world would be like without America. To be objective, you'll also have to remove anything that was developed by or provided by Americans. It's easy to pick on the big kid on the block, just remember, he's likely to have a long memory and doesn't necessarily respond to your way of thinking. We have a great fondness for INDEPENDENCE as well. By the way, freedom of speech also means I have just as much right to say that they're fools as they have to say what they say about America.

~Dave

AlpineRAM

Dave: I think that I didn't make myself clear enough.
I didn't intend to attack, disrespect or badmouth the USA and it's population.
I expressed my disagreement with the opinion of the member cumminsho2500. I couldn't care less about his nationality. In my opinion this guy's view is in contradiction to the basic values of the constitution of the USA.

Personally I am opposing to violence against people just for the reason that they have a different opinion. So I opposed to this in the statement of cumminsho2500 too.

The stuff you wrote is quite interesting, IMHO correct in some places, disputable in others, but I don't see it as a reply to what I said. Simply because it does not fit.

AlpineRAM

Hoss

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=10;threadid=19164;start=30#msg180639 date=1062713489](wearing asbestos underwear now)
[/quote]

Curious....doesn't that make you itch?? ???

By the way, Dave and Alpine....good posts from both of you.

WHIFF

You can always count on Hoss to lighten things up!

AlpineRam,
I must say I agree with your assessment of our constitution [sic]. No self-respecting American with an understanding of our Constitution should be for the outright suppression of one's right to free speech. On the other hand, I understand CumminsHO2500's visceral reaction to yet one more worthless, (in my humble opinion) spineless, uneducated profiteer off the American culture's open hatred for the hand that nurtured and fed him.

That being the case, I will not pay money to see Johnny Dupe's movies. I will not support those who travel to foreign countries to badmouth mine when it is a direct result of the freedoms guaranteed by my country that they are rich and famous. As far as I'm concerned, they can all ROT.

jfpointer

The Constitutional guarantee in the first amendment is against government censorship (like the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform act). So if a particular movie chain decides that they don't want to show someone's movies, or a particular radio station decides they don't want to play someone's music, that's not only perfectly legal but actually a good example of the free market at work.

erics76

This is where the misunderstanding is. Neither the Dixie Chicks or Johnny Depp was trying to tell you what to believe. They are not trying to make or change policy. They are just stateing their opinion, just like everyone else on here. I didn't care for what either of them said, but i'm not going to call for their execution, they have a right to say what they want. If the press hadn't picked it up, both of these incidents would have gone unnoticed because they are so insignifigant. If you want to criticize someone, criticize the press, because they are the ones "stirring the crap" and making money off of it.

AlpineRAM

[quote author=jfpointer link=board=10;threadid=19164;start=30#msg181047 date=1062781890]
The Constitutional guarantee in the first amendment is against government censorship (like the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform act). So if a particular movie chain decides that they don't want to show someone's movies, or a particular radio station decides they don't want to play someone's music, that's not only perfectly legal but actually a good example of the free market at work.
[/quote]

I do agree with the point of the free market. I think that if a majority of people dislike "Jonh Doe, actor" because of his views or because of his personality, films with him won't be successful and therefore will not make it to lots of cinemas. Hence "John Doe" will have to look for another occupation. (Or will have to sell his 5th RollsRoyce).
I do not see censorship in the fact that a movie owner will want to show films that will give him a profit. Especially with the modern means of communication it's very easy to get films and books that are not sold in my neck of the woods due to lack of popularity. (Eg Dodge repair manual etc). I do not regard this as a censorship by the Austrian bookstores.
The fact that the first amendment is against government censorship should be regarded as directed against government censorship, be it direct or indirect. I think that every grown up who has the right to vote, carry a gun, can be member of a jury, a person that can be called a full member of society, should always have the right to see the films, read the books and hear the words he wants. (Not including some kinds of films with children )
Something else that IMHO should be considered is the fact that Mr. Depp gave another interview, in which he accused the newspaper of severely misquoting him. I think that a basic principle in jurisdiction, the benefit of doubt, should also be applied before accusing Mr. Depp, more so before judging him.
I do concede that what has been written in this paper, allegedly said by Mr. Depp, has hurt the feelings of patriotic Americans. The same has to be said about things that have been said by European politicians.
But in the bible there is something about a clean faith and throwing stones.... Please try to read some of the stuff that has been published by major officials of the USA about Europeans with a neutral mind and assess if this wasn't also a bit too rough.

AlpineRAM

Mexstan

Good posts and a very interesting intellectual thread. Great opposing arguments. It shows very plainly how the opinions and viewpoints vary within cultures, education, countries, professions etc. No matter how this thread ends, I think I can guarantee that not everybody will agree. It just can't happen with the variety of folks who belong to this forum. That should not be viewed as a negative, but rather as a positive. How boring this old earth would be if we all consistantly agreed with one another. As I have stated before, we have to agree to disagree agreeably.

PistolWhipt

Let a high ranking military official speak out against the US like this and see what happens. Could you see Gen. Tommy Franks speaking out about our big angry puppy dog ?? No ... because he is smart enough to know that his opinions carry a lot of weight and that the damage he could do with those words would undermine the great stature of our country.

Like the military ... there are times when people in other career field, like professional sports and Hollywood, should keep their opinions to themselves. If they want to slam other actors / ballpayers or whine about not getting an Emmy or cut from the team for drugs that would be fine. But stay in your area of expertise or risk looking foolish.

I guess it wouldn't even bother me as much if these things were expressed to other Americans in the USA ... but to have someone maintain a US citizenship, go abroad and slander the US, and then go about enjoying the prosperities of the very same country, it just makes my skin crawl.

Pick up a gun and join the fight Johnny Depp and Natalie Mains (sp) or zip your lip and move to another country.

PISTOL

jfpointer

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=10;threadid=19164;start=30#msg181161 date=1062803146]
Please try to read some of the stuff that has been published by major officials of the USA about Europeans with a neutral mind and assess if this wasn't also a bit too rough.

AlpineRAM
[/quote]

You mean "...the chocolate makers?" I thought that was a bit rough. Besides, I like Belgian fries and Belgian beers. I don't know much about their chocolate.