Lary Ellis (Top)

Some of you people astound me, if one of todays Hollywood types traveled to Afghanistan and partied with the Al Qaeda as Fonda did with the Commies, you would be all up in arms. Yet you choose to accept her traitorous deeds as if they never happened, or you try to shift the thread away from Her to the White House.

Those Soldiers who ACTUALLY were in ground combat in Viet Nam will never forget what she did and the ramifications that were caused by her actions. No traitor should be forgiven when brave young men and women are dying on the battle field, it doesn't matter who or which political party is occupying the White House.

Jane Fonda made the conscious choice to consort and fraternize with the enemy, Her actions created much suffering for those brave soldiers who were being held at the time and problems for the rest of US as we returned home.

No one with an IQ higher than a fencepost would blame Hanoi Jane for being a cause of the war, only for her actions as a Traitor. Blame Fonda for her "bit of input" Of course we do! We should all be held responsible for the choices we make in life, especially when those choices amount to treason.

Speaking out against something you don't believe in, is not the same as traveling around the globe to help the enemy and his cause.

herb

Perhaps we should draw a line in the sand. i think you are as wrong as you think i am.
if a person is doing something to intentionally hurt their country that is what i would consider treason.
if a persons intent is to shed light on what he or she considers a "wrong" that their government is doing in hopes of drawing attention to it and forcing change for the betterment of their country , i would not consider it treason.
To blindly follow one's government when they think the govt is wrong could be considered treason

Lary Ellis (Top)

You are entitled to your opinion just as I am, however I am curious what I said you specifically disagree with?

Do you disagree that "No traitor should be forgiven when brave young men and women are dying on the battle field, it doesn't matter who or which political party is occupying the White House.?"

Obviously you can't blame the man in the White House because somebody decides to become a traitor? That is a personal choice, don't you think?

Or was it the fact that "Jane Fonda made the conscious choice to consort and fraternize with the enemy, Her actions created much suffering for those brave soldiers who were being held at the time and problems for the rest of US as we returned home."

Nobody made her go there, she did it on her own, We all know it happened after all it is history .

Or do you disagree with "No one with an IQ higher than a fencepost would blame Hanoi Jane for being a cause of the war, only for her actions as a Traitor."

She didn't start the war, nor did she end it, she should be judged only on her own actions. Wouldn't you agree?

Do you disagree that "We should all be held responsible for the choices we make in life, especially when those choices amount to treason."

I know you can't disagree with that, surely you think people should be held responsible for committing a crime...right?

Or is this the part you disagree with? "Speaking out against something you don't believe in, is not the same as traveling around the globe to help the enemy and his cause."

Lots of people exercised their right to protest the war, But few of them flew across the Pacific ocean to meet with the enemy and commit treason as she did.

I can't help but be curious as to why you would disagree with any of this.

herb

simply put, i do not consider her actions were intended to be treasonist . I think that she (rightly or wrongly ) intended her actions to be helpful to this country. She did not think this country , as did a lot of others, should have been there in the first place and her actions were an effort on her part to encourage our people and government to look at our involvement from a different viewpoint.
without a doubt some of the things she did were ill concieved as were many of the decisions made by that era's polititions to get us there in the first place were. Should the polititions who made errors in judgement that helped get us involved there also be considered traitors?

Bocifus

Herb,

What **good** did she do over there that she could not have done over here? She was not capable of ending the war by consorting with the enemy in any way shape or form. She is an actress. Who did she think she was at that time, Commander-in-Chief?

I'll forgive her, never, and I'll forget her soon after she takes her last breath on this planet. I got to say Lary is 100% right on Hanoi Jane.

Casey

joel

It's not about what she contributed to the government's fiasco in Vietnam, though her actions did arguably embolden the North and possibly prolong the war. That's a point we could debate for hours.

For me, it's her actions and attitude regarding the troops themselves. She blamed them for doing their jobs, calling them traitors. That, to me warrants not seeing her film. Yes, she apologized, but it was too little, too late.

US Navy, 1987 - now (Active Duty)

Lary Ellis (Top)

Herb thanks for taking the time to explain your view a little better to me, I understand a little better where you are coming from now. I agree her actions were ill conceived, but she did them none the less.

I think we all do things we regret later in life, but her actions can't possibly be compared with those of our "elected" officials at that time. Right or wrong, those actions were approved by Congress and thus it became legal in the eyes of the American courts.

If she had gone to Japan or Germany in WWII she would have been tried as the Traitor she has proved herself to be. Very fortunate for her that the times were so unsettling and that she had a Father with enough money to keep her out of trouble, other wise I am certain the outcome would have been a much different for her.

Vulcan

Well put.

P.J

No Doubt!!! With enough money all things are possible (don't believe me, ask Tom Delay)

No, seroiusly though. I was fresh from watching Real Time with Bill Maher when I wrote that, so I was feeling Extra Liberal.
As TOP complains about me "shifting blame" can't we all admit that that's what ALL POLITICS is about these days??
"Spin" is the catch word the media uses for it, but it can't it be better descibed as "Lies", or "Cover-ups"?
http://www.unamerican.com/catalog/

Lary Ellis (Top)

You misunderstand my post entirely, I did not object to you shifting blame, I object to you hijacking the thread and trying to make it a political matter. It isn't about Republican or Democrat, it is about abandoning ones country and attacking the soldiers on a personal level.

Many of the same people who Jane attacked, belonged to the same political party as herself. This subject goes far beyond the devisions of conventional politics, She hated ALL our Troops and made sure we all knew it.

runamuk

Double dittos on that!!!.

Thank you TOP for coming to my rescue!

You may see my post in the Other Forum.

Barry Smith

I have a friend that was a Marine for 22 years (1967-1989) and you don't have to ask him twice what he thinks of Hanoi Jane. As for the rest I think if you have read the post from Top and you don't understand what it is that people hold against her you never will. Saying "move on" is just what she wants people to do so she doesn't have to answer for her actions.

Geico266

Jane Fonda helped prolong the war causing the deaths of American soldiers. Her actions gave our enemy strength at a time when later we found out they were about to give up. "If an American pop culture movie star believes in our cause we must fight on". Jane Fonda's actions helped kill American soldiers by emboldening the ememy to fight on, prolonging the war.

For that I will never forgive her, see her movies, or listen to her latest "I am better than you" interview.

If she didn't do anything wrong then why has she tried (and failed) to appoligize? Jane Fonda, in fact, is my enemy.

Geico266

This isn't about the latest catch phrases of the day, or some talking head on TV. This is about aiding and abedding the ememy during a time of war which resulted in the lost of American lives.

herb

who do we blame for the loss of lives in Iraq ?